Show me where, one time, I have said that OPV should not be used in a developing country. I haven't, and you persist in saying that I have. I have said, as has the CDC, that developed nations, such at the US, where it is readily available, has NO REASON to continue using OPV, though it continues to be the most effective treatment in developing nations.
Vaccines are not "safe," they are simply better than the alternative in most instances. But to blindly believe that they are completely safe is foolish. It's not "conspiracy theory," I don't believe that there is any attempt to do harm with vaccinations. It's simply good sense to realize that even good medicine can be dangerous under certain circumstances, and people would do well to know exactly what is being injected into their bodies, and what the pros and cons are, BEFORE accepting treatment.
So again, show me where, one time, I have said that OPV should be discontinued in 3rd world countries?
Posts by Odrade
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40Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
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350
Called JR Brown regarding Cano Pedophile situation
by LDH injust called their media line:.
http://www.jw-media.org/contact.htm.
asked a young man named bryce where is the official press release on the cano pedophile situation.
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Odrade
Holy crap! That was amazing!
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40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
:::The OPV is much easier to administer, and far cheaper.
A valid reason to use a riskier method in a developing nation at risk for epidemics. BTW, I wrote that, but you evidently didn't read any of it. Did I EVER say their lives are disposable? That's a pretty sick thing to insinuate. All I've ever said is, where the alternative is AVAILABLE, it makes absolutely no sense to risk VAPP simply for ease of administration and cost effectiveness. Incidentally, that's also what the CDC says. Maybe you'd like to take up your argument with them? Or your doctor?
And "future improvements?" What the hell are you talking about? This is not a "future improvement," there already IS a better vaccine for polio that is readily available in developed countries. We have it, we use it. But go right ahead, with your next kid, take him to Rotary and say you've decided to decline IPV, in favor of OPV. -
40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
But there IS a better alternative. So that argument is ridiculous. Would you knowingly give your child a vaccine that has CAUSED polio, when there is a safe alternative available, simply because the risk is low with the risky alternative?
Are you even reading what you type?
I wouldn't let my child stand outside during a lightning storm, when it is safer for him outside the house, even though it is unlikely that he would be hit by the lightning.
Tell you what, I'll let YOU and YOUR children use the oral polio vaccine, since it is low risk. I'll opt for the one that isn't documented to cause VAPP. Works for me, works for you, because hey, lightning won't strike you, right? -
40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
CDC 1997 Press release: OPV can cause Polio
Since 1979, the only polio disease in the United States has been caused by the oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) vaccine, which had been used routinely for childhood vaccination since 1965. Until recently, because of the risk of polio epidemics in the United States, the risk from the vaccine, about 1 case for every 2.4 million doses, was outweighed by the benefit from the vaccine in protecting against epidemics. Although both vaccines protect children against polio, OPV provides better protection against epidemics. IPV is not known to cause VAPP.
Prior to the change to a sequential schedule, there were 8-10 cases of paralytic polio caused by OPV each year.
Because of this, and the fact that the polio eradication campaign has led to continued declines in polio cases outside the United States., the ACIP determined that the recommended childhood polio vaccination schedule should be changed to an exclusive IPV schedule to completely eliminate the risk of VAPP while still providing protection to children and adults. Until polio is eradicated, all children still need to be vaccinated for polio.
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40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
::: I bet there's been more cases of polio documented in children that didn't receive the polio vaccine .
Where? About a decade ago, there was a report released that said that the only documented cases of US-acquired polio for the previous year were as a result of the oral vaccine.So there were actually MORE documented cases of polio FROM THE VACCINE, than naturally acquired. (In the US.)
Now clearly that is not the case worldwide, but the Oral Polio Vaccine is known to put children at risk for developing the disease. In areas where there is known risk of contact with the polio virus, OPV lowers the risk of contracting it. But in developed nations with almost no risk of contact with polio, why put give children a riskier treatment such as OPV, especially when there are alternatives? Because it is "easy." The OPV is much easier to administer, and far cheaper. That is why it is such a "good" treatment for undeveloped nations, because it can significantly reduce the spread of polio, with far less risk than the alternative (no vaccination.) But here, we have a safer alternative, though less convenient, from which there is no risk of contracting polio.
Informed consent is right. Sadly, most parents implicitly trust the pediatrician, instead of questioning treatments, they just accept all recommendations. How is that informed consent? Consent, yes. Informed? -
40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
Jim, LOL! Sounds like you are more than aware of everything I wrote. Hehe! Preaching to the choir.
Princess, if I had kids, that's exactly how I would proceed. Sounds like you have a great pediatrician too. -
40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
Jim, there have been documented cases of polio caused by the polio vaccination. They no longer use that particular vaccine in the US, but your daughter is young enough so that maybe she received it.
Regardless of their widespread use, vaccines are not "safe." In most cases it is a low-risk procedure done to prevent much riskier diseases. But in some cases children get very sick from vaccinations. They can cause short term immune system reactions, or long-term dysfunction. There still appears to be some causal correlation between MMR and autism, but that connection is still under debate, with one side saying "we have proof that there's no link," and the other side saying "we have proof that there is..."
Personally, I think it's criminal to assault a 2 day old baby's immune system with the HepB shot and other vaccinations. And the volume of vaccinations given close together is another practice I vehemently oppose. I am not against vaccinations, I just believe strongly they should be given with more thought and care, rather than looking at an age chart and saying "oh, today you get 8 innoculations because you're 15 months old."
Even with animals, a good vet will not give a vaccination to an animal that is running a fever, they wait until they are several weeks old for the first one, they recommend reduced combo vacc, especially if a disease is not commonly found in the area. Yet I have been in the Dr office on several occasions with a small child running a 101 fever from a virus, and the doc will look at his chart and say "Oh it's time for your shots!" Why is the VET more conscientious than the Pediatrician? And the parent sits there and smiles and nods as the doc give a bunch of innoculations to a child who is fighting a virus. Nothing like a good old-fashioned assault on the immune system to help you get over that virus. (Here is where I'd insert rolling eyes, but... Firefox, dontcha know.)
Last thing: why do kids have to wait a few minutes in the Doctor's office after a shot? Because of the risk of anaphyllaxis after innoculation. It's a known risk. Vets are very familiar with it, which is why they don't recommend home-injections like you can get for cats and dogs through mail-order.
The FDA knows about adverse reactions to vaccinations, but it's probably one of the most under-reported things in medicine, likely because the docs send parents home and say "your kid will probably be fussy and have fever for a day or two," so the kid gets sick, the parent "knew" it would happen, so they don't report the adverse reaction. Last time I got a vaccine (as an adult,) I ran a fever, had headache and nausea. I had muscle aches that lasted for weeks. I called my doctor to report the adverse reactions, and she said, "Oh we don't record these things unless it becomes an urgent care situation."
Now THAT'S good medicine. -
40
Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
LOL! there are still a bunch of JWs out there who adhere to the 50s WT suspicion/condemnation of vaccinations. Although I tend to agree that children are vaccinated too much and too often, which is hard on their immune systems, I think there is a general lack of commonsense that happens when a religion dictates that meetings are more important than health.(Or staying home so you don't spread disease. HAHA!)
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Spread the good....chickenpox!?
by Gill inmy mum was just telling me today how 'good' my cousin is as she got to the assembly with her four kids, even though one of them is poorly with chicken pox!.
wouldn't you call that just being plain stupid?!.
me, i'm reduced to just smiling politely and remembering when i would have been that stupid!
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Odrade
Chicken pox is contagious all the way until every last blister has formed a scab. It is MOST contagious in the several days before blisters form, but the patient continues to shed the virus until the blisters dry up into scabs. Ew, yuck, bleh. I've seen alot of moms dragging their blistery kids around based on the fallacy that once they break out, they aren't contagious.