Posts by Odrade

17

Pulling The TriggerThe Watchtower's Discipline

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

pulling the triggerthe watchtower's discipline *disclaimer: .

the approach of this topic requires that you temporarily disconnect your emotions.

connected to the watchtower society and view this case from a different perspective.. the perspective of the thread.

Odrade

"Compared to nothing, most things look good."

I agree. While the WT did provide structure, and certain skills for me while growing up, there would have been many ways far more beneficial to acquire that training. For instance, I could have learned social qualities of teamwork by playing sports, learned speaking skills by being on the debate team, learned a clean-cut lifestyle by going to most any church, etc. Those things are not necessarily dependent on circumstances such as being raised within WT framework.

IF you are comparing it to NOTHING at all, then yes, I agree with your premise, being raised with WT values was likely better than nothing in those particular areas you mention. But it's a faulty argument, because think of all the other things you learned during your upbringing. You learned to memorize everything and research nothing. (Any research was done with an index and the WT volumes, where you would read the presented material. Full stop.) You learned to judge anyone, JW friend or "worldly" foe, if they stepped one millimeter out of lockstep with your "bible understanding/bible-trained conscience." You learned to get up and give a 4-5 minute speech, that you read off of a notecard, cobbled together from WT publications. (These are the most approved talks, TOO much "outside material" got you a talking-to after the meeting...) You were told not to blow your own horn when you did good, but learned that if none of the congregation heard about it you didn't get "credit." And that "credit," whether it was for more hours in service, talks, quickbuilds, bible studies, or informal witnessing, really determined your social standing.

You learned that, while it wasn't okay to be prejudiced against a person's color, it was perfectly okay to be prejudiced against the stay-at-home mom who wasn't pioneering even though she "had plenty of time," the publisher who STILL hadn't joined the TMS, the 19 y.o. kid who STILL hadn't gotten baptized, and all of the Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Methodists, SDA, LDS, other protestants, Buddhists, atheists... oh yes, and WOMEN, who are not permitted to challenge anything spoken by an overseer.

But yeah, compared to NO upbringing at all, I guess the WT training was better than nothing.

50

Conversation with street witnessor (?) becomes elder infused

by AuldSoul in

yesterday, thursday, july 26, 2007, a conversation with a street witnessor (isn't that what you would call someone involved in street witnessing?

) got joined by a walk-up elder turned into a great opportunity to witness to several bystanders (who even joined in the conversation).. i began by declining to accept the offer from the elderly woman who held up a "what does god require of us?

i said, "but, verne, you aren't going to the bible.

Odrade

I only used the arguments that I have posted on this forum previously, it was just in real life. It worked exactly as beautifully as I thought it would. The elder has never been taught a response for those points because the Reasoning book doesn't HAVE those points. The Watchtower Society has never commented on those points. And they can't respond on their own, can they? Not without permission from "mother", right?

What I didn't do was address the things he was ready for.

This is what I've been saying all along. (To myself anyways. :) ) Talk to the JWs about the trinity, hellfire, ransom, end times, etc... and they have answers they can parrot. More than that, they have the fervor of conviction because it has been hammered into their brains over and over and over...

Instead, by addressing something they don't really cover in publications or the "Reasoning" book, they have to access their own reasoning ability to try to reply, instead of just accessing rote and memory. Fantastic. We had my dad over for dinner tonight. I tried to do something similar... just slipping around the edges of reason. Not nearly so effective as what you were doing, but interesting still.

192

GOOD GOD!! WHY ARE THERE SO MANY.......????

by Terry in

jw
friends

....spelling errors on the topic headers?.

how much effort does it take to check your spelling before you post a topic??.

just read over some of the topics up for discussion right now and you'll see a very shocking (to me, at least) disregard for accuracy.. if you can't trouble yourself to get your spelling right how are the rest of us going to respect the fact you have your reasoning right either??.

Odrade

Good lord. Get over it, Terry. This is a discussion board where people come to process their experiences. Great things happen here that have absolutely nothing to do with spelling. The important thing is that people are INVOLVED, not that they know how to spell it.

(aside to Fe203 girl: nice tits)

5

If Your tree limb drops in my yard...ITS GOING BACK..I HATE NEIGHBORS

by restrangled in

jw
friends

here in florida, we have major yard work most of the year.. i have a neighbor that has tree limbs that drop off into my back yard.....the hell i'm going to deal with them.. so i wait till it's dark, and toss them back over the fence between our 2 yards.

sometimes, i find them back into my own yard.

i would never send limbs over the fence from my own trees from my own yard.. what the hell?........god i hate neighbors!.

Odrade

Yeah... not quite like that, but I have a neighbor who thinks that she can plant stuff in our yard. Also she put a little decorative (but falling apart piece of crap) wishing well in our yard because it would "look nice." Plus she has planted all of this "decorative grass" stuff (I call it noxious weeds) all along the side of our front yard since a tiny little one foot piece of our front yard is technically her property- actually it is the easement between our houses so one can access both of our backyards with equipment.

GAH! This same neighbor has a huge dead fir? tree right on the fence bordering our two yards, so all of the dead needles, cones and branches have been dropping off in our yard all the time, but will she cut it down? NOOOOOO.

And also, this same neighbor has a giant Western Red Cedar, which hangs over our fence by a mile, so all of the needle drop from that kills everything. At least that tree is healthy.

We also have a neighbor whose dog poops in our yard, but she is little, and we have an understanding that if her dog poops in my yard I will clean it and if my dog poops in her yard she will clean it. So it's all good. And if all the dogs go over and poop in dead tree lady's yard, we do shots of tequila! (Not really. But we do secretly do a little dance and cheer.)

30

You want some big Watchtower news? I think this is big news.

by under_believer in

just like the wts, the mormons (okay, the "church of jesus christ of latter-day saints," hey look, a religion with even less talent at picking a name than the jw's) hide their net worth.

nobody knows how much money they have, though estimates go as high as 30 billion usd.. .

well, this guy in portland is suing them for (what else) pastoral pedophilia, and part of the discussion of damages, the plaintiff argues, is the revelation of how much money the church has.

Odrade

I think there are stops along the way from State Supreme court to SCOTUS. I heard this too, thought it was significant, and also thought that this one was sure to go all the way in the judicial system, because surely the LDS will not let it drop if they get an unfavorable ruling.

What I'm most curious about is whether WT will be filing a "friend" brief, or whatever that is called, like they did with Jimmy Swaggart?

61

Hello.

by emilyblue in

i posted here a couple of months ago, or less.

my home computer crashed and they cracked down on messageboard sites at my work, so the work laptop was out.

plus, i just felt emotionally burned out and just didn't want to think about it anymore.

Odrade

Emily, the emotional you is being a real idiot. Start using some commonsense. You are involved with an abuser. AN ABUSER! YOUR BOYFRIEND IS AN ABUSER. Say to yourself: I AM DATING AN ABUSER. I AM GIVING ANOTHER PERSON PERMISSION TO ABUSE ME.

Does that seem reasonable? So now what do you need to do about it? If you had a girlfriend who was dating a guy like your guy, what would you tell her?

This has absolutely nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses. It wouldn't matter what religion (or no religion) this guy is, HE IS AN ABUSER. He will be an abuser with the JWs, he will be an abuser without the JWs. YOU CANNOT CHANGE HIM.

Now tell yourself: I AM NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANOTHER PERSON TO ABUSE ME.

Good. Now what else are you going to do about this to take care of yourself?

12

Portland (Oregon) ApostFest - Sunday 12th of August

by BrendaCloutier in

jw
friends

we're expecting some out-of-town ex-jw's coming to town that afternoon.

sunday august 12 at/after 4pm at kennedy school courtyard.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=113

Odrade

I'll be there with hubby in tow...

15

"It will change your life"

by lost_light06 in

jw
friends

i have to share this.

last night i had an appointment with a lady.

i was under the impression that it was regarding life insurance, something i will need to get soon, however there were hints that there was some sort of "business opportunity".

Odrade

Descender: Same situation for me, different company. I could barely afford to buy food, and got talked into "investing" $1200 by a JW family that had kind of become like a surrogate family to me (at 21.) I had to beg, borrow and (almost) steal, to get that kind of cash. Not long after they kind of weren't very much "family" anymore, because of course once I received my "materials" and discovered it was a pep talk on 8 tapes and a freakin' workbook, I just couldn't pitch that to anyone.

I later received a few phone calls from the attorney general, looking for people who had been taken in, but not made a dime themselves. They were putting together prosecution, but since I still believed the JWs were the "truth," I declined participation since, obviously, I couldn't treat my "brothers" that way (ie: sue them.) Stupid me. It would have been nice to get that money back, or at least a little non-monetary payback. It took me 16 months to pay it all back I was so poor.

Meh, I learned a lesson, that's for sure.

12

Crazy-Ass Apostates

by GetBusyLiving in

jw
friends

whats the most outrageous thing you have ever heard of an apostate doing to get back at the witnesses?

a while back on here i heard of some guy that was hugely pissed about the 1975 fiasco.

he dressed up in one of those ancient drama outfits and stormed the stage at a convention screaming, " i'm the faithful and discreet slave!!!!".

Odrade

My dad tells this story of how one year when he was working security at a D.C. a guy on roller skates, dressed in a nun's habit rolled into the stadium with ballon bouquets. He wanted to skate into the arena and hand out helium balloons with bible messages inside. Pop the balloon get a scripture. LOL! Yeah, they surrounded him and wheeled him right out the door. I didn't get to see it though. :(

I also remember a guy here in Portland who had a freakin' long white beard, standing on the bus benches, hopping from bench to bench preaching a hellfire and damnation sermon at the top of his lungs at all the departing JWs after the session was over. Don't think he was an apostate though, just a crazy fundie.

Good stuff.

63

Old timers left here?

by animal in

jw
friends

doing some research, found this site and forgot i used to be here..... any old timers still around?.

animal.

Odrade

Hey animal, you just came up in conversation this weekend. Of course I remember you! Sounds like you're doing well, life is good around here too, except for being knee-deep in paperwork for business, and procrastinating by poking around here a bit.

O.