Posts by Pronger1

10

The Sickening Sadism of Christianity

by cofty in

burning heretics alive was a common practice in medieval europe.

i cannot begin to imagine the depravity of the mind that invented this cruelty, let alone the inhumanity and callousness of those who carried out the act.

sometimes an individual would take pity on the victim and hide gunpowder among the wood faggots to hasten their death.. there is only one way to make this scenario even more depraved, infinitely depraved in fact; and that would require magic powers.

Pronger1

You are starting with a presupposition that Christianity is uniform in beliefs. It is not.

Ever actually pay attention to Paul’s words?

1 Corinthians 15

21 For since death came through a human, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human, 22 for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.

Who will be made alive in Christ? Some or all?

Romans 5

18 Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.

Adam’s trespass led to condemnation for all compared to Jesus whose act leads to justification and life for all. Not some. All.

Colossians 1

19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross.

Through the cross, God reconciled himself to all things. Not some. All.

How does Revelation describe the New Jerusalem?

Revelation 21

25 Its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there.

The gates are never shut. But nothing unclean will enter.

27 But nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Revelation 22

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Those who wash their robes will be allowed to enter by the gates. Those who have not remain outside. But those gates are never closed.

78

God, one person, or three?

by slimboyfat in

the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.

niv.

gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.

Pronger1

Read Genesis 18 closely. Count the number of persons called God.

Three men approach Abraham. Abraham goes with the three me. God says he must go down to Sodom. The men leave, yet Abraham is still there with God. Abraham is negotiating with God on how many righteous men he would save Sodom for. Then God goes on his way.

Chapter 19, we see two angels in Sodom, everyone knows what happens. But in verse 24 it said God rained fire and sulphur from God out of heaven.. what? Interesting language use here.

But If you keep digging, you’ll keep seeing reference to the Angel of the Lord being called God.

Judges 6, the Angel of the Lord appears before Gideon. Gideon feeds him and then the Angel of the Lord disappears. Gideon becomes terrified when he realizes who the Angel of the Lord is.

22 Then Gideon perceived that it was the angel of the Lord, and Gideon said, “Help me, Lord God! For I have seen the angel of the Lord face to face.”23 But the Lord said to him, “Peace be to you; do not fear; you shall not die.”

Why would Gideon become terrified of dying seeing just an angel? People died seeing God face to face.

Turn to Judges 13. The Angel of the Lord comes to Manoah’s wife. Manoah’s wife leads Manoah to this man. Manoah offers the man, who is the Angel of the Lord, food.

15 Manoah said to the angel of the Lord, “Allow us to detain you and prepare a kid for you.”

Eventually Manoah sees this man ascend to heaven in a flame, and Manoah becomes terrified when he realizes who this man is.

Then Manoah realized that it was the angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God.”

Manoah realizes this man, the Angel of the Lord is God. He is terrified of dying because he has seen God.

But pay attention to verse 8 and 9

8 Then Manoah entreated the Lord and said, “O my Lord, I pray, let the man of God whom you sent come to us again and teach us what we are to do concerning the boy who will be born.” 9 God listened to Manoah, and the angel of God came again to the woman as she sat in the field, but her husband Manoah was not with her.

Manoah prayed to God that this man.. whom Manoah later realized is God, would appear. And God sends this man to Manoah.

Do the math. How many persons are God here?

Exodus 3, who is in the burning bush? Verse 2 says the Angel of the Lord. When Moses turns aside, God calls out to Abraham from the burning bush.

In Judaism there was the thought of two powers in heaven. Yahweh and the Angel of Yahweh. Both God. It later became a heresy in 2nd century Rabbinic Judaism because early Christians were pointing to the Angel of the Lord as being an early Christophany.

The early Jewish followers of Christ saw no issue with worshipping Jesus because it was part of Judaism that there were two Yahwehs. Yahweh and the Angel of Yahweh, both called God, yet they only worshipped one God.

The examples I provided of this are far from being all the times in the Old Testament this happens.

https://bibleproject.com/articles/who-is-the-angel-of-the-lord/

7

Who are Jesus" other sheep?

by Vanderhoven7 in

watchtower other sheep.

and other sheep i have, which are not of this fold: them also i must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

(john 10:16).

Pronger1

Besides those addressing that the other sheep are the Gentiles.. who are the 144,000?

In Revelation there is a motif of John hearing and then looking. Revelation 5, John is told to see the Lion of Judah, but when he looks, what he sees is the slaughtered lamb.

Both the Lion of Judah and the slaughtered lamb are Jesus. But the Jewish expectation of the Messiah leading to the overthrowing of empires that ruled them was fulfilled in an unexpected way. The Messiah’s victory was through self sacrifice.

Revelation 7, hears the number of 144,000 out of every tribe of Israel. The number being symbolic of completeness, yet when he turns and looks he sees a great multitude that he cannot count out of every nation and tribe.

That complete number of the 144,000 out of Israel is fulfilled unexpectedly as the the great multitude out of every nation. The 144,000 is the great multitude.

The concept of two classes of Christian does not exist in the Bible.

35

Isn’t JW’s teaching of “the abomination that causes desolation” wrong?

by Abraham1 in

what “the abomination that causes desolation” mentioned in mathew 24:15 means could be understood only by close followers of jesus because it was part of his personal discussion with them.

by stopping to greet those whom they consider as “their enemies” jws are identifying themselves as “pagans,” according to jesus.

(mathew 5:43-48) thus they cannot correctly understand what the abomination that causes desolation” that would appear as part of signs of “last days.”.

Pronger1

The whole point of a cross is to reflect on Jesus' death and resurrection.

I don't think many here understand what an idol is or why God forbid creating idols.

In the Ancient Near East, idols were placed within the temples of gods, sometimes even in homes for local or familial gods. They were images of that god.

There was no idol found in the tabernacle or later Jewish temple. So why did God forbid the creation of idols?

Genesis 1:26 (NRSV): 26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness;

Humans were created to be the image of God. It was a sin to create images of other gods, because humans were the image of the creator God.

25

Eating of blood prohibition specifically not forbidden for non-Jews

by peacefulpete in

deut 14:21 you shall not eat anything that has died a natural death; give it to the stranger in your community to eat, or you may sell it to a foreigner.

for you are a people consecrated to yhwh.... it seems quite self evident the ritual of blood letting prior to eating meat was understood by the deuteronomist as binding only on jews..

Pronger1

Talk about abuse of scripture. Matthew 19:4-8?

Not eating blood was part of the covenant with Noah that predated the Mosaic Covenant.

Genesis 9:3–4 (NRSV): 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and just as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. 4 Only, you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

The Noachian covenant did not restrict unclean animals from the diet, but eating blood was certainly part of it.

37

The day after Armageddon

by Pronger1 in

jws are scattered across the globe.

a few million people left, pretty isolated from each other.. telephone lines and power goes down since the people who supported the infrastructure are dead.

communication across town, state, country, etc is cut off.

Pronger1

The difference is in the flood story, all the humans got off the ark together.

They weren't scattered across the globe with no means of communication.

I guess manna will be making a comeback as most wouldnt know how to feed themselves.

37

The day after Armageddon

by Pronger1 in

jws are scattered across the globe.

a few million people left, pretty isolated from each other.. telephone lines and power goes down since the people who supported the infrastructure are dead.

communication across town, state, country, etc is cut off.

Pronger1

JWs are scattered across the globe. A few million people left, pretty isolated from each other.

Telephone lines and power goes down since the people who supported the infrastructure are dead. Communication across town, state, country, etc is cut off. Oil refineries shut down, gas for travel starts becoming unavailable. Crops dying in the fields, livestock used for milk and meat start their process of dying.

Manufacturing of replacement parts for automobiles gone.

Basically everything on the TV show, Life After People comes to pass.

The JWs who survive are mostly ignorant because they preached for decades that college should be avoided.

The JW post Armageddon world will be a society thrown back into the stone age. Far different from what they depict of happy smiling well clothed and fed large groups of people together. Ignoring that families would be cut off from distant loved ones not knowing if they survived. Cut off from the governing body to get their spiritual food and direction.

Sounds like hell on earth to me.

31

Jesus is his earthly name, Michael is his heavenly name

by bruh2012 in

i know this topic has been discussed before on this forum, but as it goes in jw world we need reminders.. co said in his last talk i can't remember the title in speaking about jesus, that when jesus returned to heaven he resumed his name michael.

jesus was his earthly name.. through the entire rest of the bible after his ressurection not one reference is made about this.

case in point----when jesus oh wait michael pulled saul over and talked to him, he introduced his self as jesus.

Pronger1

Dang.. Didn't read the whole thread. Island man beat me to it.

31

Jesus is his earthly name, Michael is his heavenly name

by bruh2012 in

i know this topic has been discussed before on this forum, but as it goes in jw world we need reminders.. co said in his last talk i can't remember the title in speaking about jesus, that when jesus returned to heaven he resumed his name michael.

jesus was his earthly name.. through the entire rest of the bible after his ressurection not one reference is made about this.

case in point----when jesus oh wait michael pulled saul over and talked to him, he introduced his self as jesus.

Pronger1

If this were true, why don't JWs end prayers "In Michael's name, amen."?

14

Red clouds in the Uk

by Xanthippe in

jw
friends

we have red clouds.

can anyone else see them, it's way after sunset?.

Pronger1

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v29/n733/abs/029055a0.html