Yadda Yadda. I already know of pascals wager. I'm at point in life holding my chips in hand (next 40+ yrs) and trying to figure out what to bet my wager on. This forum exists in my eyes to assist in making that bet.
sunny23
JoinedPosts by sunny23
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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sunny23
If you thank god for anything he/she does in your life you affirm your belief in a god who acts in time. You then also have to answer why he fails to act._cofty
YES! That's exactly what I would try and make my stubborn MS younger brother understand. He believed God blesses his people and his congregations. Even elders would announce that financial success of the congregation to provide for the CO was a blessing from God.
You can't attribute blessings and not non-blessings!!
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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sunny23
Then we would have to determine the max time we would allot for such a bet on rightfull sovereignty. If you were God when would you have put a stop to it? Consider that ALL forms and types of human rule and satanic influences would need to be explored and tested fully first.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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sunny23
Cofty, my original post wasn't satire. I'm here for guidance and scrutiny toward my posts is welcomed. What I posted aren't my words so I won't be offended. I'm legitimately trying to figure out for myself what my beliefs are and as concerns the topic of suffering and pain, I believe the reasoning I posted makes most sense to me right now and that it wasn't addressed in your opening statement.
9. There is eternal afterlife and our life now and the current pain and suffering is less than a speck on the prospect of an eternal timeline.
Btw I think that the idea of Gods hashing it out to prove a point to angels thus causing centuries of pain and destruction only to "shake the etch in scetch" afterwards is perhaps the only dispute I would have with this logic. Yet if its really about sovereignty and there really is eternal life after death then I personally would excuse it. Again only on the premise God makes up for it and a loving God would.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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sunny23
I met an atheist the other day at a bar and even though i'm against talking politics or religion while at a bar i couldn't help but to intervene as he was bragging to my girlfriend and I about a bad@** atheist church he is starting downtown including 1500 members gathered and in support online. He kept bringing up suffering around the world as a definitive sign that God doesn't exist. I myself since leaving the JW org have been questioning it, however I still believe that IF there is a God and IF most of the current bible is true and inspired then the JW reasoning for why God allows bad sh** to happen is the best reasoning...(bible teach book)
"10 To find out why God allows suffering, we need to think back to the time when suffering began. When Satan led Adam and Eve into disobeying Jehovah, an important question was raised. Satan did not call into question Jehovah’s power. Even Satan knows that there is no limit to Jehovah’s power. Rather, Satan questioned Jehovah’s right to rule. By calling God a liar who withholds good from his subjects, Satan charged that Jehovah is a bad ruler. (Genesis 3:2-5) Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God’s rulership. This was an attack on Jehovah’s sovereignty, his right to rule.
11 Adam and Eve rebelled against Jehovah. In effect, they said: ‘We do not need Jehovah as our Ruler. We can decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong.’ How could Jehovah settle that issue? How could he teach all intelligent creatures that the rebels were wrong and that his way truly is best? Someone might say that God should simply have destroyed the rebels and made a fresh start. But Jehovah had stated his purpose to fill the earth with the offspring of Adam and Eve, and he wanted them to live in an earthly paradise. (Genesis 1:28) Jehovah always fulfills his purposes. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) Besides that, getting rid of the rebels in Eden would not have answered the question that had been raised regarding Jehovah’s right to rule.
12 Let us consider an illustration. Imagine that a teacher is telling his students how to solve a difficult problem. A clever but rebellious student claims that the teacher’s way of solving the problem is wrong. Implying that the teacher is not capable, this rebel insists that he knows a much better way to solve the problem. Some students think that he is right, and they also become rebellious. What should the teacher do? If he throws the rebels out of the class, what will be the effect on the other students? Will they not believe that their fellow student and those who joined him are right? All the other students in the class might lose respect for the teacher, thinking that he is afraid of being proved wrong. But suppose that the teacher allows the rebel to show the class how he would solve the problem.
13 Jehovah has done something similar to what the teacher does. Remember that the rebels in Eden were not the only ones involved. Millions of angels were watching. (Job 38:7; Daniel 7:10) How Jehovah handled the rebellion would greatly affect all those angels and eventually all intelligent creation. So, what has Jehovah done? He has allowed Satan to show how he would rule mankind. God has also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan’s guidance.
14 The teacher in our illustration knows that the rebel and the students on his side are wrong. But he also knows that allowing them the opportunity to try to prove their point will benefit the whole class. When the rebels fail, all honest students will see that the teacher is the only one qualified to lead the class. They will understand why the teacher thereafter removes any rebels from the class. Similarly, Jehovah knows that all honesthearted humans and angels will benefit from seeing that Satan and his fellow rebels have failed and that humans cannot govern themselves. Like Jeremiah of old, they will learn this vital truth: “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”—Jeremiah 10:23."___________So I used this logic when talking to the soon to be atheist minister and it seemed to make sense to him. Agreed to disagree even though I myself am still unsure how much I hold it to be true. Either way, you can't prove there is a God and you can't prove there isn't. I just hate having to to try and turn speculation into faith.
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New to JWN and excited!
by sunny23 inhave been visiting jwn for about a week now and it motivated me to join.
i look forward to meeting everyone i can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated.
here's most of my story:.
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sunny23
"That bit really shocked me, because that was in full force on the East Coast since the late 1960s. It's in the literature, was constantly discussed from the platform, and the dubs gave all the teens the full court press about it all the time in private conversations."-rebel8
I know it was always iterated on platform and at assemblies and conventions but some of the most anti-college propaganda i heard was after i started attending college. There were more statments that i noticed classifying people who went to college as opposing God and being selfish than i personally had heard prior. Maybe that was just my bias as i didn't pay much attention to it in high school though?
Not to mention the fact that in our congregation in Indiana I had several brothers including MS and elders who would whisper to me at applebees after the meetings that I should "do something more" after highschool because they regret not going to further school and would confess how miserable they were at trying to provide for their kids who they want to send to college and to pay the bills while cleaning commercial carpets late at night at age 53 with their wives. They would emphasize though that i should put Jehovah first but that the economy is getting worse and its hard to make it by and stressing about living pay check to paycheck made life miserable in areas where it didnt have to be. Then moving to college town Gainesville, FL. there were a few elders who were engineers and sent their kids to college. Two young brothers unrelated to eachother in my cong in Gainesvile had been regular pioneering since they were young teens and both graduated at age 20 from UF, one an electrical engineer and the other a nuclear engineer and both were MS by 18 and went to bethel at 20. So the college propaanda was "toned down" in my hall and i noticed much more of it at conventions.
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42
New to JWN and excited!
by sunny23 inhave been visiting jwn for about a week now and it motivated me to join.
i look forward to meeting everyone i can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated.
here's most of my story:.
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sunny23
"By the way I'm curious why you joined, because it seems like a lot of new members joined JWN recently. Does the holidays help people to overcome their fears and join JWN?"-aBibleStudent
Discovering JWFacts.com and its info on 1914 and various other topics helped me to answer some questions. Plus not celebrating holidays after not attending meetings for a year started to make me question why I was taught not to celebrate and why.
Interesting side note: I was living with a JW roomate in 2012 and I had stopped going to meetings, met my girlfriend, and started bringing her to the house. At the end of our lease on move out day I was "ambushed" by two elders who confronted me about my lack of attendance and my worldly gf who they heard slept at my house. I agreed to a JC even though I thought of not showing up. At the JC they learned that I was fornicating and that I had just signed a lease with my gf and was about to move in. Even though I showed no sign of remorse or repentance they took my divorce as an excuse of spiralling down and offered to not DF me so long as I didn't move in with her YET they said I could still date her!! Was shocked at this and they said "we can't control who you love, and maybe this will bring her into the truth." I decline as moving in with my gf to see how we live together and verify if marriage would become well justified, was moreiimportant to me than being accepted in the eyes of some elders and some so-called friends. Either way. Have had friends with less understanding elders and it proves that the social and emotional lives of members are at the unqualified perspectives and agendas of divinely unguided elders.
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42
New to JWN and excited!
by sunny23 inhave been visiting jwn for about a week now and it motivated me to join.
i look forward to meeting everyone i can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated.
here's most of my story:.
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sunny23
"also be prepared for evidence and references for the first time ever, not just "because we 8 window cleaners in Brooklyn say so!" That isnt how scholars and researchers work at all, quite the opposite. They give you the data"-Snare
Exactly! And that's really been frustrating me! Going over publications like the watchtower and young people ask and reading claims that are stated as fact with no quotes or sources cited pisses me off royally. I hated doing bibliographies and works cited in college but anyone publishing internationally released articles from the world's largest printing press better damn be doing it!! And I'm not reffering to bible interpretation but to "facts" regarding studies, experiments, and science to come to conclusions.
Also thought I should make it clear as to the timeline of my story as some seem to confuse it. Shouldn't have told it Tarantino style..
2005:graduated high school
2008: met and left gym worldly girl
2009: got married
2010: graduated college
2011: December separated from wife
2012:July divorce finalized
2012:August 2012 met current GF
2013:July DF'd upon moving in with GF
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42
New to JWN and excited!
by sunny23 inhave been visiting jwn for about a week now and it motivated me to join.
i look forward to meeting everyone i can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated.
here's most of my story:.
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sunny23
Thank you so much guys! I'm dying to start some topics concerning my most recent research of Christmas and the JW pedo cover ups. My best friend and I have spent days talking perspectives while analyzing these topics especially Christmas and have wrote most of it down. This led to the both of us celebrating our first Christmas this year! Hence my join date here ;)
Yes Snare the history of the bible has been concerning me. I have enough negative background on the WT and enough disagreement with their current teachings that I need no further proof that they aren't led by God (even though finding more is always another hammer bang on the nail), however, I figured that maybe I should go to the source, no not the architect..i mean the Bible. The fact that there aren't any existing manuscripts to campare to today, that i don't know hebrew or greek, and that there is heavy reliance on "false worshipers" interpretations and translations of the original manuscripts concerns me greatly but I feel I don't know where to begin! Any help in the right path to discover more into the exact history of the bible would be awesome!
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42
New to JWN and excited!
by sunny23 inhave been visiting jwn for about a week now and it motivated me to join.
i look forward to meeting everyone i can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated.
here's most of my story:.
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sunny23
Have been visiting JWN for about a week now and it motivated me to join. I look forward to meeting everyone I can and learning from their experiences and wisdom as i search for more and more reasons not to get reinstated. Here's most of my story:
Moved to Florida from Indiana with my immediate family in 2005 when i was 18 to attend college shortly before the "anti-education" kick took full force and in support of my fam (dad is a pharmacist) and even some elders (engineers). By this time i had just been baptized in 2004 and had aux pioneered one month (actually liked it minus the fact it brought lots of guilt when i would have a tug-of-war with cyclops). Anyway, went to college and didn't like the new cong too much. Didn't join the school for as long as i could take the peer pressure to do so before i did. My younger brother flourished and loved every bit. I got baptized at 17 on the same day my younger brother did back in Indy 2004 simply because i didn't want to look bad as people would tease me that my 13yr old brother was getting baptized before me even though deep down i felt that i needed much more time and research before i dedicate my life to something as i could barely hold my own at school with my faith. He was book smart but couldn't think for himself and thus flourished in our new cong now in 2005 whose elders followed a very militaristic way of leadership and hierarchy in the cong. I was very turned off to this new cong as i could tell my parents were too.
Got a job at a gym in 2008 and met this girl. Worked with her for 5months before we started "dating" for 3 months which consisted of dinners, marathons, workouts, and cooking at her house. Never so much as kissed her simply because she wasnt a JW and once strong feelings were established this fact would bring me to tears everytime i left her place. Prayed to Jehovah to give me a JW girl like this one because I couldnt take it anymore. Sure enough one week later im at a "get together" from another cong and meet a girl my age. Married within 10months and that marriage ended at 2.5yrs with her consistent adultery after going through months of near;y "catching" her at it before she confessed. Elders privately reproved her and we tried to make it work and that lasted two months before she was back at it again. Agreed to divorce dec 2011 and it finally went through july 2012.
Spent most of 2012 partying and spending $$ to fill my new void. Stopped going to meetings as it would only remind me of being there "happily married with my wife next to me" and now she wasnt and not all members of the cong were caught up to date and for almost 2 months i would get the random "so where's your wife?" and I would be fine with it until i went to sleep that night. Met a few girls since then but fell in love with the one i currently live happily with and for the last year and 4 months.
I had over the years questioned some things about JW doctrine and jusitfications for doing some things. Especially after taking philosophy, 3 dif psychology courses, and critical think/writing and technical communications courses in college. Even before my marriage I would notice the circular reasonings, and the watchtowers use of rhetorical fallacies and black & white blanket statements. However anytime I would dig into these things or bring them up to my then wife she would scream "apostate!" and stop the conversation. She also didn't like me occasionally texting my best friend from childhood who was recently DF'd for dating and sleeping with a worldly girl who he is now engaged to. For most of this year I have been digging deeper into the org. I had previously been "scarred" of searching outside sources for info on JW doctrine as so commanded by platform. But every so often I did in college but my faith would be reaffirmed by the youtube videos, their iggnorant comments, or ex-jw forums where all i saw was foul mouthed haters who ranted solely about excommunication and elders being assholes. Anything else i saw i would shrug off as this is the "truth" and whereelse is there to go?
First thing that really peaked my interest was a convention in 2010 and the slightly modified "understanding" of the "generation" was explained and i was perplexed and to me it came off as desperate rectifying. Even worse was then hearing the logic behind the "light getting brighter" in depth. I stopped taking notes, looked around and thought "is anyone really buying this shit?" and of course anyone not sleeping or seeing who might be sleeping was taking notes brainlessly or starring at the stage counting the plants. Fastforward again to 2013 and I dig depper into 1914, using only a calculator and the insight books i come to realize the WT and GB may very well come up with ideas from bathroom stall graffiti. Looked more into birthdays, blood issue, and finally 2007 pedophilia and contemplating why known child abusers arent announced as "sex offenders" upon being reproved or DF'd as they should be to protect the flock. That did it for me. Fortunately, I have very understanding parents who themselves are frustrated with their cong, and my brother who now has through his hubris, has stopped talking to them. My parents still talk to me but keep it secret of course. They even had my GF and I over for dinner! And are bringing my grandma over to our house this week for dinner! I'm truly blessed. I miss my brother though and the only reason I would use previously to reinstate would be to reestablish connection with him and future nephews and neices. Doubt now that I ever will.
Sorry for the long intro, theres reall so much more. I just want to express my gratitude for a place like this even existing and I appreciate it already very much!
"The root of suffering is attachment" -Buddah