Posts by sunny23

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

So when Jesus illustrated pulling a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath day is that not considered work? Honestly a sheep wouldn't die if it fell in a pit on Sabbath afternoon and you pulled it out the next morning. And as I said above, pulling a sheep out of a deep pit would be hard work for a fasting 5'7" 130lb middle eastern man. Is "helping" or "saving" a person or animal or any humanitarian action not considered "work" at all ever? So it's ok for doctors and veterinarians to "work" on Sabbath day if the Sabbath law was still instituted because what those two professionals do are not considered work?

"Whosoever does ANY work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to DEATH."

Define work please.

Also when Jesus said, "Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath."

Could it not also be interpreted as "Therfore it is lawful to do good work on the Sabbath?"

Perhaps the initial instituted law should have said,"whosoever does any non humanitarian work on the Sabbath day shall be put to DEATH?"

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Dan I could see them saying that and even if it's true the logic that doing something "good" is above all else still persists. If Jesus were here today standing next to a child whose severe blood loss from a crash requires a blood transfusion and the parents resist he might say,

"Who here among you, that has puppy dog, and if it falls into the pool, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a human better than a dog? Therefore it is lawful to do good life saving things to all humans by any means necessary!"

For Jesus not to be breaking the Sabbath then healing people and picking from fields would have to not meet the definition of "work" and yet Jesus uses an illustration of retrieving a sheep out of a pit. I don't know about you but I would consider it some hard work to try and get a fatass sheep out of a deep narrow pit all by myself! And Jesus knew that and refferences it IMO to show that "good" work CAN be performed on the Sabbath day and you would remain free from punishment. Therefore it's safe to assume that using blood for "good work" in a manner unknown in ancient times can be performed without punishment from God. Honestly what kind of supreme being could actively watch a father give his blood to his daughter and save her life and then condemn both of them to be cut off from salvation for healing and saving a life out of noble actions?!

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Thanx and it's "sir" ;)

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Used this method to logically convince my friend who is also DFd of one of many reasons as to why I shall never return and he agreed. Let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :)

Blood Transfusions:

Back in ancient times , the OT, were the 10 commandments important?

Yes

Was there any blood law mentioned in them?

No

The Sabbath and keeping it was one of the 10 commandments right?

Yes

Breaking that commandment meant severe punishment, death, a greater punishment than breaking a so called blood law?

Yes

Exodus 31:14-15 "You shall keep the Sabbath, for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to DEATH: for whosoever does ANY work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to DEATH."

Did people get executed for eating blood in the bible?

No

Is it safe to say that keeping to the ten commandments was more important than a law on blood?

Yes

Did Jesus ever break the Sabbath law?

Yes

Why did he?

Matthew 12:1-13

Jesus said: "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the Sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep?Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days. Then said he to the man, Stretch forth your hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."

So Jesus taught that the preservation of life supersedes law?

Yes

Can a blood transfusion save a life?

Yes

Did they have the capabilities to use blood to save lives in the bible?

No

Did Jesus and disciples at one time have the ability to cure blood disorders

and save lives and did they do so whilst breaking other laws?

Yes

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

I must admit that through my teenage years and into my early twenties I had a deep disregard for authorities. I ran from police on more than several occasions. There were much worse things I had wanted to do as a fear of civil punishment was non existent in me but I refrained because fear of God was within me. Now that I'm older and have real things to lose for acting wrecklessly, I do fear civil punishment but I no longer fear Godly punishment. The point is that in some circumstances, fear of God, however dilusional it might be now in hindsight, can have a meaningful role in civility where these so-called "in-grained" ethics might fail or where fear of governmental punishment is dampered.

36

Letter About Blood Fractions

by Bangalore in

letter about blood fractions.. .

.

bangalore.

sunny23

ldrnomo do you still have a copy of the original letter you sent?

Im curious to what you said about the alcohol analogy. I was 19 when that came out and taking technical communications in college and remember thinking it was a major Cum Hoc fallacy. It's comparing two situations including two substances that can't be analagous. Alcohol can't be injected intravenously to save a life, in fact it will kill a person so of course no doctor would be behind doing such a thing. This makes the analogy misleading to the readers as they quickly assume that injecting alcohol into your veins is crazy and thus so is blood.

Island man i really liked your response! very concise and in a way I couldn't have worded better.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

Ok so this is honestly my 9th attempt over the past 2 months at typing out a long response to give further backing to a theist argument to defend God's inaction only to re-read it before I post and delete it all. There really isn't a way in my eyes to give sound logic with or without the bible to give reason on this matter. Through both this thread and other sources i'm now aggnostic. I feel though concerning the existence or non existence of God, as this thread has brought up frequently that it is something to be argued between both theist and atheist scientists as brough out by Neil deGrassr Tyson (Atheist Astro Physicist) here in this video from 0:00 until 4:50 he explaines this. Interesting watch, if you would like to see the entire 1.5hr speech it is linked in the descption of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xvILvxYbFA

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

I have read about 45 pages of this thread as it seems to grow almost 20 pages every time I check.

Referring back to the most recent summary for reference here but have learned A LOT from the individual posts and am extremely grateful for this threads contributions as it has drastically and effectively changed much of my views in a very short time! I still feel that some of the rationality regarding the “responses” to some theist claims are a bit misleading and/or presumptuous but I feel that perhaps it’s more that the responses need to be “cleaned up” to avoid confusion or even further disagreement with them. Working to address that now, be back soon, and thanks to Cofty and others for their persistence in this thread! ;-)

38

Atheism and Theism are only partly right!

by abiather in

today we know that matter and energy are interchangeable, hence they are there always in either form, they are eternal, hence requires no creator.

hence atheism is right in rejecting a creator, but failed in providing any motivation for people to do good.

religions, in their effort to provide a motivating factor for humans to do good, introduced creation stories and other myths; hence they too are right (as far as their intention is concerned), yet failed in producing any worthy resultsworld was steadily moving from bad to worse and from worse to worst!.

sunny23

"The electron has to move into the same orbit again and again, eternally."

Ummm..FALSE

"There is no need to discover the “cause,” when the consequence is the child of that cause."

No need? At all ever?! Our modern civilization and technology wouldnt be where it is today if it weren't for people looking into the "cause" of things. It's in our nature to do so as well. And IMO there is a need for it in most cases. To live without it would be to live oblivious and careless. Searching into the deeper things of life including the origins of life is essential for everyone to do. Maybe unneccessary to obsess about it until death but I say that it's not something everyone should just shrug off entirely. Looking into the "cause" of things no matter what your findings at least give you a foundation on which to believe or disbelieve inorder to bring more equinimity into your life.

19

Don't Question GOD! (aka the governing body)

by sunny23 in

did a simple search in the wt library for words like, "question," "questioning," "doubts/ing,"obey," "understand.".

these are listed in order of occurence oldest to newest (up to 2012 as my library is 2012 version).

"if we have love for jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the bible says, 'believe all things,' all the things that the watchtower brings out"qualified to be ministers (1955) p.156.

sunny23

"The nu-light for 2013 says that the faithful slave is not appointed over Christ's belongings, and won't be for the forseeable future."

I did not know this! WOW. So if they are not appointed over Christs belongings then what does that make them? What does that make their followers? Are baptized JW's no longer part of "Christ's belongings?" Or is it just a big mind controlling slosh of imperfect people letting a small group of imperfect and dinvinely unguided guys tell them what to believe? Is the "light getting brighter" or is it really just the GB gaining more practical wisdom to be able to interpret things in a way to save their asses better?

For example,

Luke 16:1-8

"Then he went on to say also to the disciples: “A certain man was rich and he had a steward, and this one was accused to him as handling his goods wastefully. 2 So he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Hand in the account of your stewardship, for you can no longer manage the house.’ 3 Then the steward said to himself, ‘What am I to do, seeing that my master will take the stewardship away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, I am ashamed to beg. 4 Ah! I know what I shall do, so that, when I am put out of the stewardship, people will receive me into their homes.’ 5 And calling to him each one of the debtors of his master he proceeded to say to the first, ‘How much are you owing my master?’ 6 He said, ‘A hundred bath measures of olive oil.’ He said to him, ‘Take your written agreement back and sit down and quickly write fifty.’ 7 Next, he said to another one, ‘Now you, how much are you owing?’ He said, ‘A hundred cor measures of wheat.’ He said to him, ‘Take your written agreement back and write eighty.’ 8 And his master commended the steward, though unrighteous, because he acted with practical wisdom; for the sons of this system of things are wiser in a practical way toward their own generation than the sons of the light are."

No new light. The GB is just getting wiser. Like a teenager to a college student, to a parent, to a grand parent, wiser with time and experience. Or like the steward trying to scramble to save his ass thus having to use practical wisdom? Don't want to look bad and be abondandoned by their "people" when their doctrine is inconsistent or "inspired" words fail to come true.