Posts by sunny23

17

Radiocarbon dating totaly inaccurate before 2000 BCE

by opusdei1972 in

it seems that this portion was published in the watchtower in the year 1977 (as i have in the spanish version):.

the radiocarbon dating method has been widely accepted by many scientists as showing that humans lived back to at least 50,000 b.c.e.

that conflicts with what the bible says.. but physicist r. brown of andrews university claims that this radiocarbon dating method is highly inaccurate.

sunny23

It's laughable how they try and criticize scientific method to hold onto ancient man-written scripts.

This is from the Insight book:

"Differences in dating. It is important to realize this when considering the dates offered by archaeologists with regard to their finds. Illustrating this, Merrill F. Unger says: “For example, Garstang dates the fall of Jericho c. 1400 B.C. . . . ; Albright subscribes to the date c. 1290 B.C. . . . ; Hugues Vincent, the celebrated Palestinian archeologist, holds to the date 1250 B.C. . . . ; while H. H. Rowley views Rameses II as the Pharaoh of the Oppression, and the Exodus as having taken place under his successor Marniptah [Merneptah] about 1225 B.C.” (Archaeology and the Old Testament, p. 164, ftn. 15) While arguing on behalf of the reliability of modern archaeological process and analysis, Professor Albright acknowledges that “it is still very difficult for the non-specialist to pick his way among the conflicting dates and conclusions of archaeologists.”—The Archaeology of Palestine, p. 253.

It is true that the radiocarbon clock has been employed, along with other modern methods, for dating the artifacts found. However, that this method is not completely accurate is evidenced in the following statement by G. Ernest Wright in TheBiblicalArchaeologist (1955, p. 46): “It may be noted that the new Carbon 14 method of dating ancient remains has not turned out to be as free from error as had been hoped. . . . Certain runs have produced obviously wrong results, probably for a number of reasons. At the moment, one can depend upon the results without question only when several runs have been made which give virtually identical results and when the date seemscorrectfromothermethodsofcomputation [italics ours].” More recently, TheNewEncyclopædiaBritannica (Macropædia, 1976, Vol. 5, p. 508) stated: “Whatever the cause, . . . it is clear that carbon -14 dates lack the accuracy that traditional historians would like to have.”—See CHRONOLOGY (Archaeological Dating )."

However when it comes to confirming beliefs and dates the WTorg is quick to use carbon dating when it backs them up! From watchtower 09 5/1 p27:

"Did King Hezekiah really build a tunnel into Jerusalem?

Dr. Amos Frumkin of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem says: “The carbon -14 tests we carried out on organic material within the plaster of the Siloam Tunnel, and uranium-thorium dating of stalactites found in the tunnel, date it conclusively to Hezekiah’s era.” An article in the scientific journal Nature adds: “The three independent lines of evidence—radiometric dating , palaeography and the historical record—all converge on about 700 BC, rendering the Siloam Tunnel the best-dated Iron-Age biblical structure thus far known.”

ALSO: from Awake 08 2/8 p19-22

Dating the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah

The first Dead Sea Scroll of the Bible book of Isaiah, discovered in 1947, was written on leather in a pre-Masoretic Hebrew script. It has been dated to the end of the second century B.C.E. How did scholars arrive at that date? They compared the writing with other Hebrew texts and inscriptions and assigned it a paleographic date between 125 B.C.E. and 100 B.C.E. Carbon -14 dating of the scroll provided additional evidence.

109

Topics Ive Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION in

this is my first post on here so bear with me.

currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.

i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.

I'm 27 and finished college at 23 but miss it and wouldn't mind going back for degrees in things that actually interest me. You are never too old! More than half of my graduating class were over age 30. Anyway, some background, I was a JW from 3rd grade unitl age 24 when I stopped attending after New Light about the "generation." The reasoning they had for New Light didn't make logical sense to me. I had already been questioning the logic surrounding the non-acceptance of blood transfusions. I decided exactly like you that if it's the Truth, then it can withstand ANY scrutiny! I took a year off to research specific JW doctrine and what I concluded about blood, 1914, 1975, etc convinced me not to waste any more precious time with the organization.

Keep asking questions and seeking answers! Belief sytems play a large role in your psyche and subsequently your actions and decisions for the rest of your life. If you have never truly scrutinized your belief systems and have only blindly gone with the wind with them, then you might live the rest of your life fully formed by an organization you don't want to bother questioning. Never stop seeking knowledge. In fact I advise you to take a Technical Communications course in college and pay attention to Logical Fallacies. You will be able to critically analyze each paragraph in a Watchtower mag and see how often they commit these fallacies!

Also as a side note regarding homosexuality: Homosexuality has been observed in the animal kingdom across hundreds of different species and even in long-term homosexual bonds between two mammals that lasts their entire life-time! It is a byproduct of creation/evolution/natural selection/whatever you want to call it. How could a God condemn the actions of the animals/humans he created when he instills these behaviors? Also combine the points made previously about STD's between straight people, and the points about pro-creation not being of any concern or necessity in even married JW couples.

Cheers

22

Spirituality is innate!

by Pinku in

on seeing the horrifying scene of world trade centre being attacked and knowing the pain of those trapped in and their loved ones, not only in new york but across the world millions of people turned into silence, prayer, and meditation.

they gathered on the streets, lit candles, wrote condolence, anything to feel solidarity and to spread a wave of love.

churches, temples, mosques and retreat centers were flooded with people seeking to raise their consciousness beyond the senseless killing to a higher, more noble plane.

sunny23

nicolaou, a quote from Sam Harris's book I linked above concerning a sceptical and objective approach to "spirituality"...

"Before going any further, I should address the animosity that many readers feel toward the term spiritual. Whenever I use the word, as in referring to meditation as a “spiritual practice,” I hear from fellow skeptics and atheists who think that I have committed a grievous error.
The word spirit comes from the Latin spiritus, which is a translation of the Greek pneuma, meaning “breath.” Around the thirteenth century, the term became entangled with beliefs about immaterial souls, supernatural beings, ghosts, and so forth. It acquired other meanings as well: We speak of the spirit of a thing as its most essential principle or of certain volatile substances and liquors as spirits. Nevertheless, many nonbelievers now consider all things “spiritual” to be contaminated by medieval superstition.

I do not share their semantic concerns. [1] Yes, to walk the aisles of any “spiritual” bookstore is to confront the yearning and credulity of our species by the yard, but there is no other term—apart from the even more problematic mystical or the more restrictive contemplative—with which to discuss the efforts people make, through meditation, psychedelics, or other means, to fully bring their minds into the present or to induce nonordinary states of consciousness. And no other word links this spectrum of experience to our ethical lives.

Throughout this book, I discuss certain classically spiritual phenomena, concepts, and practices in the context of our modern understanding of the human mind—and I cannot do this while restricting myself to the terminology of ordinary experience. So I will use spiritual, mystical, contemplative, and transcendent without further apology. However, I will be precise in describing the experiences and methods that merit these terms.

For many years, I have been a vocal critic of religion, and I won’t ride the same hobbyhorse here. I hope that I have been sufficiently energetic on this front that even my most skeptical readers will trust that my bullshit detector remains well calibrated as we advance over this new terrain. Perhaps the following assurance can suffice for the moment: Nothing in this book needs to be accepted on faith. Although my focus is on human subjectivity—I am, after all, talking about the nature of experience itself—all my assertions can be tested in the laboratory of your own life. In fact, my goal is to encourage you to do just that." http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/chapter-one

22

Spirituality is innate!

by Pinku in

on seeing the horrifying scene of world trade centre being attacked and knowing the pain of those trapped in and their loved ones, not only in new york but across the world millions of people turned into silence, prayer, and meditation.

they gathered on the streets, lit candles, wrote condolence, anything to feel solidarity and to spread a wave of love.

churches, temples, mosques and retreat centers were flooded with people seeking to raise their consciousness beyond the senseless killing to a higher, more noble plane.

sunny23

Xchange "Traditionally spirituality has been defined as a process of personal transformation in accordance with religious ideals. Since the 19th century spirituality is often separated from religion, and has become more oriented on subjective experience and psychological growth. It may refer to almost any kind of meaningful activity or blissful experience."

This is the next book I will be starting, I hear great things about it. It's from an atheist neuroscientist on spirituality without religion. You probably already know of Harris though. http://www.samharris.org/waking-up

7

The best Parable I have ever heard!

by Pinku in

nothing good exists outside jw world is the general thinking among jws.

if they read the heart of the enlightened (written by anthony de mello), they would probably feel how wrong they were!

story goes like this: there once lived a godly man.

sunny23

He equally nourishes the good and the bad through the life-support systems He has put in place on the earth without giving the impression that He is behind, and is not at all bothered about the praise or ridicule people shower on Him.—Mathew 5:44-48

Wait, God does what? I'm confused. What are you saying exactly about God's personality? Which God? Only the one in the new testament right, not the old testament one?

I do agree though that JWs are easily outshined in certain areas when compared to the parables or ideas of others like you pointed out. I bounced to a few dif non-denominational churches after I left the WT and noticed several "more ideal" perspectives on the bible. Eventually saw through them as well.

40

Reflections on 1 year WT Free-breaking the chains...

by MissFit in

hi everyone.. i just realized that it has been over a year since i discovered this site and started to recognize i was shackled by invisible chains.

i am still in the process of chipping away on those chains.. i posted on another thread how these threads here are like little time capsules.

the moment, the emotions, the attitudes are all there frozen.. .

sunny23

I haven't been to a meeting in 2.5yrs but didn't start working hard to determine if Chrsitianity was something worthy of my attention for the rest of my life until I sat down and seriously put it to the test which only happened on smal scales here and there until Cofty's thread, you know the one Miss Fit. After a few weeks of that and pondering on my own I have noticed huge changes to my persona for the better as well

"There were things I didn't even know that I didn't know. For example logical fallacies"

I learned about those and other technical writting aspects in college in 2006 and from that point on spent 6 years questioning certain arguments and fallacies I would notice in JW literature, the first being the anology: "If your doctor told you not to drink alcohol anymore because it was detrimental to your health and might cause eventual death, then surely you wouldn't inject it into your veins would you? The same is true of God and blood." I remember actually agreeing with that faulty logic when I was younger until I went to college that is..However it took me 6 years before I really started to chip away at the core doctrines. Glad I did it when I did though and not 20+ years later. I feel I have chipped away enough over the last year especialy, to feel comfortable about my new "non-belief system" however it's still intriguing to find new ways to refute claims that I used to use way back when or even new claims I have never been aware of.

38

Reverse Shunning

by exwhyzee in

someting happened yesterday that i thought might be noteworty enough to relate to you here.. mrs. eyz and i were invited to my new boss's home for his annual end of summer party.

it's a pretty big deal....his is a name known locally (i'll call him j.r.) a really nice interesting guy who's held a number of high level and politically connected jobs.

there was to be music, dancing, wine and reprotedly lots of well dressed, well educated, well to do and influential people (oh yes...and us) in attendance.. anyway we thought we'd make an occasion out of it and got ourselves spiffed up which involved new outfits and extra mirror time before we left home.

sunny23

I like it! I'm still trying to figure out how to act around JW's who recognize me. Depends on who it is and my mood as to what I say to them if anything at all. I've stopped trying to avoid them. The ones who smile and say Hi I don't mind, it's the ones who are at my place of work or at the store who make eye contact and then give a cold shoulder that I sometimes like to go up to and see how much they will converse before it becomes me talking at them about the weather or recent events or they walk away.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

5 - Death doesn't matter anyway

"This being does not feel about death as we do because He KNOWS it is NOT a bad thing" Psac

Then why did jesus cry when Lazarus died? Why did Jesus selfishly resurrect Lazarus if he knew that Lazarus was in a better place? How horrible it would be to bring someone back to an earth full of suffering when they are already in heaven right? If I was Lazarus and Jesus resureccted me back to earth after I was already enjoying a McDonalds milk shake in a hottub in heaven i would be pissed! Jesus woulda got a slapping! The idea "death doesn't matter in the long run," has already been used here, doesn't work according to logic or according to the bible when truly put to the test under christianity.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

"We simply do NOT KNOW why God decides to not intervene and we can simply express POSSIBLE views, which is what I have done.

Agreement with this views is irrelevant to be honest."Psac

Agreement is relevant to this thread! If your views do not agree to typical christian theism and the entire bible then it is NOT relevant to this thread! This thread asks to offer consolation as to why the God of the entire bible according to christianity would permit 250,000 deaths in a tsunami. You haven't adequatley touched that topic and your views are thusfar NOT POSSIBLE in accordance to the threads guidelines.

4 - God is unable to prevent a tsunami

It seems Psac, you now believe in a God who set in motion physics long ago and has watched everything play out like an ant farm with no involvement except to vist for 33yrs at one time conveniently before videocameras and internet, turn some water into wine, flip some tables, heal some lepers, and raise his friend from the grave, only to say "alright guys keep talking about me and get everyone to believe in me or I will kill them eternally when I come back, see ya!" and then he goes back up to heaven. You don't believe God created Adam & Eve roughly 6,000 years ago right? You don't believe God hand crafted the earth in several phases right? If so you are not representing viewpoints akin to typical christianity.

"You are asking if God can make soemthing that you can conceive YET have no evidence CAN exist and my answer is No, He can't make something that can't exist just because we would like it to.Now, if you are saying that the life on this world could come to be the way it is under DIFFERENT conditions then I would say prove it."Psac

I can concieve someone being clinically dead and resurrected three days later but there is NO evidence that this can happen or has ever happened (like to Jesus) so I would say "prove it." However you claim that God can't make something exist that defies our current laws of nature and physics right? Does not the instantaneous healing of leperosy or raising from the dead 3 days later, or using some unseen forces to part a sea or calm the weather defy our laws? How about Jesus being resurected to some new "form" and shape/entity? To hold to your own argument means you must also deny any miracle performed by Jesus ever! To accept all the biblical stories of Jesus means you accept that things that defy our physical laws can exist or happen because God can do just that. Thus God could create a universe without suffering. Would you not want to prevent your children from suffering Psac? Would you kill one child and then beat the remaining child to teach that remaining child compassion? The bible says God loves a sparrow to a high degree and much more so his human children. His love should be higher than any human parent could show to their child yes?

"The bible itself makes no mention that God CAN or DOES divert natural disaters to save lives"Psac

WOW! Have you read the bible at all!? Seriously Psac read it a couple more times and then come back.

"seeing what type of God is demonstrated in Jesus's life, death and resurrection and deciding IF that is a God you deem worthy of worship."Psac

Jesus said in Mat 12:30 that those who are not with him are against him and will be destroyed. If you do not follow or agree with Jesus then you do not inherit his kingdom, you are etenerally destroyed or tortured. How childish is this? A loving parent would still love their child and keep them safe even if their child didn't agree with anything they ever said, told them they hate their parents, and disobeyed at every chance, the parent would never harm/kill their child. Why can't God be like that Psac? Actually Jesus exhibits a non-compassionate bias enough to put him on a level to be conscientiously OK with letting 250,000 people drown when he could have saved them. That is if in the future as predicted in the new testament Jesus is willing to kill billions of people simply because they don't believe in him or dont agree with him. Hitler comes to mind.

32

Science and Philosephy.- God

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

jw
friends

when i discovered ervs and #2 chromosome i knew there was no personal god.

the rest is history.

i have always since kept updated in science as much as possible.. .

sunny23

You were wrong, end of story.

The phrase i said "sub-atomic matter including the original elements," was a list. I was listing the two for the purpose of over-emphasis. I was not trying to say that sub-atomic matter is made up of elements. I should have put a comma between them or just typed elements first to keep from mis-leading.

It is very true you havemade several false statement and admitted them yet, perversely, somehow claim you still know what you are talking about, all evidence to the contrary.

Thats a seperate topic from the original statement within the post I said that nothing was false which only referenced the scientific quotes I used with that single post. You are re-visiting my admitted mistakes by emphasizing things outside of the quote when you said, “Clearly you must mean "nothing is false other than the several things I have recently admitted to being wrong about."-Viviane. "I was refering to the scientific claims within that one post up until that point and that still holds true."-Sunny Also I never claimed to know what I'm talking about. In fact I admitted to hating science as a kid and that i'm currently learning, thanks for teaching me.

Google and wikipedia would be an excellent first step

I did, all of the elements in the human body can be found in stars whether they are small stars, large stars, or supernovae. I previously said "Everything that makes up the human body can be found in a star." You denied it, please tell me which elements viviane, I must be overlooking them.

human elelements

star elements

I will respond to the rest tomorrow.