Posts by sunny23

49

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

by nicolaou in

faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

why be dishonest with yourself?

sunny23

EDIT: when I said "because of #2 requiring proof and there is non for God."

Meant to say "because of #1 being proof based and #2 apprehension based and there is no proof for God."

250

Biblical Prohecies That Came True?

by Viviane in

recently there have been several claims made regarding prophecies that came true.

i've not personally seen a prophecy that i would consider as having come true.

i would consider the following as the requirements to say something is a prophecy and evaluate whether or not it came true:.

sunny23

This was not a good thread to read IMO, and confess I did not read it all.

Kate xx

Haha thats like ebert &roper saying "that movie was the worst we have seen all year, and we confess we did not watch it at all." Gee thanks for that.

I feel that for those who are not well versed enough in the bible to remember and identify all of the details of each prophecy because they spent more time daydreaming during bookstudy nights than listening, can benefit from a thread like this when you have family members trying to "prove" the bible is inspired by God because ALL of His prophecies came true to the last "T." Thank you to all who actually contributed. Marked

11

I am curious from a comment made, were there any protests and any conventions this year?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't recall reaading on here about any.. i just wondered if any actually happened?.

.

oops i misspelled "at" in the title.

sunny23

The entrance to our neighborhood is passed by 4 congs to get to their hall 200 yds from our house. Thought about making JWFACTS.COM signs and putting them where neighborhood garage sale signs go. Its a small road and wouldn't be missed by any. Has anyone else tried this?

49

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

by nicolaou in

faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

why be dishonest with yourself?

sunny23

CL if there is one thing I have learned from Viviane, it's to know your EXACT definitions and state your points clearly and concisely!

faith

LisaRose in her first post initially adressed the #1 type of faith using the friend analogy and its general acceptance and then contrasted it with the WRONG use of it when applying it (#1) to God because of #2 requiring proof and there is non for God. She was never "transposing the meaning of faith onto the word 'trust'" She was only contrasting the use of #1 and #2 by theists and I feel her post was fine. She is saying there is NO reason for believers to put faith #1 OR #2 in God and yet many believers THINK there is reason to put faith #1 AND #2 in God. Just because this thread might be more about #2 doesn't mean you can't adress #1 and how believers try to attribute it to God because THAT is relevant to this thread and IS one definition of "faith." That's what I get out of it. I'll admit I did at first get the same feeling you did in making wrong assumptions as you read it. Although CL never actually accused LisaRose of having religious faith so idk where that came from, he doesn't have problems with logic (here anyway), I think it's a misunderstanding of definitions and misinterpreting a post, or two. This forum/site taught me to come to agreements on exact definitions before you make accusations.

Ok done mediating, lets talk about vices of faith, Donnye, where did you go?

49

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

by nicolaou in

faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

why be dishonest with yourself?

sunny23

donnye, what do you have to offer to this thread on Faith? Offer your own opinions on this topic.

So far it has been said that faith in God specifically:

Is NOT like faith in a friend you might have and can see physically
Comes from fear of death and hope for more
Can make a person misperceive value of life
Causes one to be vulnerable and easily decieved
Shouldn't logically be required for salvation

What are your thoughts to these claims and give supporting reasoning please.

49

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

by nicolaou in

faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

why be dishonest with yourself?

sunny23

you're welcome Simon

IslandMan that's a great point: faith is useless and counterproductive to the powerful who desire to be followed in a specific way.

The concept of requiring FAITH for SALVATION is silly. Apply it to firefighters. If God was a firefighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSZqH0Ms4ds

49

Faith - Virtue or Vice?

by nicolaou in

faith gives you permission to believe that jesus actually did feed thousands with a few loaves & fishes, walk on water and rise from the grave.

all the evidence proves that none of this happened so why persist with faith?

why be dishonest with yourself?

sunny23

In the large "pastor" thread Cofty started, I quoted another member and then made the statment:

Psac: "Because I can feel Him in my bones."

Sunny23: "Or perhaps its your subliminal fear of not having life after death resonating within you? Like Cofty said, many other religious people feel the same way you do towards a God you believe to be false (any God but yours). If one were to invent a new absurd and bogus made-up religion in North Korea, eventually everyone there would believe it and feel it in their bones too :)"

And then I got this response:

"Yes, and perhaps because of fear of losing the meaning of life in general. Take away God, that Love and Power and Grace (as they say) that is greater than us, and all life and meaning (for me) goes away. Evolution takes over - that we are just accidents that came through in time out of nothing, and a race of species that will disappear in time, meaninglessly - that all that is in the universe will grow into increasing disorder and then into nothingness - as law of entropy, that all of this shit is just a waste of time. Suffering has been discussed extensively in this thread - the picture of that asian mother with her dead daughter in hand brandishedly brought up from time to time to bring home the point. And we all have our own personal sufferings that we endure and go through each day. To go through all that, endure it, and burn in its fire, and then to find out that all is meaningless anyway, I would immediately end my life to save me all further trouble. After all, I am just an accident and nothing in all this universe has meaning."kassad84

I know personally as a young JW I used to think the same way. As soon as I would begin doubting the existence of God I would start contemplating the idea of dying without an afterlife and the fear of the unknown and abstract concept of eternal unconsciousness for some reason scared the sh** outta me so I would look up at the stars and convince myself there had to be a God, and I would apologize for that moment of doubt (to make sure I stayed on his good side haha). I think that people refuse to deny their faith or they choose to have faith on the foundation of fear of the unknown coupled with the delusion that "without a God and afterlife there is NO purpose to anything." It's sad to see people say that they would rather kill themselves if life was an "accident" and there was no afterlife when atheists actually feel quite the contrary, that life and well-being is the most important thing of all because it is limited!

Sam Harris adresses this concept well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxkqz7-DmsE

109

Topics Ive Been Pondering On

by JWINQUESTION in

this is my first post on here so bear with me.

currently i am still an active jw with serious questions about the jw org.

i was hesitant signing up but really need as much input from the people on this forum to get a clear understanding on things.

sunny23

"After reading the comments, I can basically pursue anything that would make me personally happy?

What if a person found happiness and joy in murdering people or if a school bully found happiness in beating kids people up? Or terrorist found happiness and joy in driving planes through tall buildings? Would it be correct for them to pursue those things?"

Psycopathy is a clinical condition/abnormality and can be identified biologically in most cases. The overall well-being of humans is the most important and those who counteract that need to be treated or locked up. To find joy in killing people is to lack empathy and biologically normal humans do not typically lack empathy so no, it would not be "correct" for psychopaths to kill to make themselves happy.

When it's told to you to "basically pursue anything that would make you personally happy," its under the assumption that you are a biologically and mentally normal/stable human being and not a psychopath or sociopath.

20

I need some help

by RedRightHand in

jw
friends

for purely informational purposes, i am planning a visit to a local kingdom hall.

it has been years since i've set foot in one and i need to know what the current terminology is so i don't stick out like a sore thumb.

what are the studying?

sunny23

"For purely informational purposes"

Do you plan on asking elders questions before or after the meeting? What kind of information are you trying to seek? If you are going to sunday meeting then the talk won't be much different than any of the ideas conveyed in talks youve presumably heard before. The study article is going to be one of about 15 different topics relating the bible to the world. If you are going to theocratic school then the methods of preaching might be changed a bit to accomodate the JW.org website they are heavily promoting but thats about it. Most "information" can be found on the JW.org website as it contains the entire watchtower library updated including their newest revised 2013 bible that has re-worded and even taken entire chunks of scripture out! However I suggest other topics on this forum and jwfacts.com for accurate information.

17

Radiocarbon dating totaly inaccurate before 2000 BCE

by opusdei1972 in

it seems that this portion was published in the watchtower in the year 1977 (as i have in the spanish version):.

the radiocarbon dating method has been widely accepted by many scientists as showing that humans lived back to at least 50,000 b.c.e.

that conflicts with what the bible says.. but physicist r. brown of andrews university claims that this radiocarbon dating method is highly inaccurate.

sunny23

It's laughable how they try and criticize scientific method to hold onto ancient man-written scripts.

This is from the Insight book:

"Differences in dating. It is important to realize this when considering the dates offered by archaeologists with regard to their finds. Illustrating this, Merrill F. Unger says: “For example, Garstang dates the fall of Jericho c. 1400 B.C. . . . ; Albright subscribes to the date c. 1290 B.C. . . . ; Hugues Vincent, the celebrated Palestinian archeologist, holds to the date 1250 B.C. . . . ; while H. H. Rowley views Rameses II as the Pharaoh of the Oppression, and the Exodus as having taken place under his successor Marniptah [Merneptah] about 1225 B.C.” (Archaeology and the Old Testament, p. 164, ftn. 15) While arguing on behalf of the reliability of modern archaeological process and analysis, Professor Albright acknowledges that “it is still very difficult for the non-specialist to pick his way among the conflicting dates and conclusions of archaeologists.”—The Archaeology of Palestine, p. 253.

It is true that the radiocarbon clock has been employed, along with other modern methods, for dating the artifacts found. However, that this method is not completely accurate is evidenced in the following statement by G. Ernest Wright in TheBiblicalArchaeologist (1955, p. 46): “It may be noted that the new Carbon 14 method of dating ancient remains has not turned out to be as free from error as had been hoped. . . . Certain runs have produced obviously wrong results, probably for a number of reasons. At the moment, one can depend upon the results without question only when several runs have been made which give virtually identical results and when the date seemscorrectfromothermethodsofcomputation [italics ours].” More recently, TheNewEncyclopædiaBritannica (Macropædia, 1976, Vol. 5, p. 508) stated: “Whatever the cause, . . . it is clear that carbon -14 dates lack the accuracy that traditional historians would like to have.”—See CHRONOLOGY (Archaeological Dating )."

However when it comes to confirming beliefs and dates the WTorg is quick to use carbon dating when it backs them up! From watchtower 09 5/1 p27:

"Did King Hezekiah really build a tunnel into Jerusalem?

Dr. Amos Frumkin of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem says: “The carbon -14 tests we carried out on organic material within the plaster of the Siloam Tunnel, and uranium-thorium dating of stalactites found in the tunnel, date it conclusively to Hezekiah’s era.” An article in the scientific journal Nature adds: “The three independent lines of evidence—radiometric dating , palaeography and the historical record—all converge on about 700 BC, rendering the Siloam Tunnel the best-dated Iron-Age biblical structure thus far known.”

ALSO: from Awake 08 2/8 p19-22

Dating the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah

The first Dead Sea Scroll of the Bible book of Isaiah, discovered in 1947, was written on leather in a pre-Masoretic Hebrew script. It has been dated to the end of the second century B.C.E. How did scholars arrive at that date? They compared the writing with other Hebrew texts and inscriptions and assigned it a paleographic date between 125 B.C.E. and 100 B.C.E. Carbon -14 dating of the scroll provided additional evidence.