Posts by little

18

Well written, scathing article that summarises first 3 days of RC hearing.

by Pants of Righteousness in

there's been quite a number newspaper articles quoted over the past week, but i would recommend this as a good summary of the first three days of the royal commission hearing in australia - complete with some scathing commentary.. apologies if this has been posted elsewhere, but have not seen this posted previously.. https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2015/08/01/royal-commission-examines-jehovah-witnesses-cover/14383512002194.

just one thing that is not quite right is that the article refers to joe bello as a narrogin elder.

the assualts took place while the victim was part of the narrogin congregation.

little_Socrates

I was impressed with how well the author understood JW teaching and yet was still very respectful considering how horrible the allegations are. He just presented the facts and allows the reader to draw their own conclusions.

26

Was this the garden of Eden/Noah's flood?

by little_Socrates in

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208151609.htm.

jeffrey rose, an archaeologist and researcher with the university of birmingham in the u.k., says that the area in and around this "persian gulf oasis" may have been host to humans for over 100,000 years before it was swallowed up by the indian ocean around 8,000 years ago.

rose's hypothesis introduces a "new and substantial cast of characters" to the human history of the near east, and suggests that humans may have established permanent settlements in the region thousands of years before current migration models suppose.. .

little_Socrates

CalebinFlorida I hear your point and I agree. For me this is simply an exercise in intellectual curiosity. I am fascinated by it and will continue to educate myself.

26

Was this the garden of Eden/Noah's flood?

by little_Socrates in

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208151609.htm.

jeffrey rose, an archaeologist and researcher with the university of birmingham in the u.k., says that the area in and around this "persian gulf oasis" may have been host to humans for over 100,000 years before it was swallowed up by the indian ocean around 8,000 years ago.

rose's hypothesis introduces a "new and substantial cast of characters" to the human history of the near east, and suggests that humans may have established permanent settlements in the region thousands of years before current migration models suppose.. .

little_Socrates

Thank you for your reply CalebinFloroda....

I am not claiming the bible is to be taken completely literally. However what I am claiming... is the biblical stories are not made up fiction. They are true stories told through the cultural experiences of the people and handed down. Yea many details may have been added latter... but the myths started as truth.

With so many people the bible is either all or nothing. Either every word is literally correct written by God... or the whole thing is fiction. I think the real story is somewhere in between.

26

Was this the garden of Eden/Noah's flood?

by little_Socrates in

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208151609.htm.

jeffrey rose, an archaeologist and researcher with the university of birmingham in the u.k., says that the area in and around this "persian gulf oasis" may have been host to humans for over 100,000 years before it was swallowed up by the indian ocean around 8,000 years ago.

rose's hypothesis introduces a "new and substantial cast of characters" to the human history of the near east, and suggests that humans may have established permanent settlements in the region thousands of years before current migration models suppose.. .

little_Socrates

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101208151609.htm

Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist and researcher with the University of Birmingham in the U.K., says that the area in and around this "Persian Gulf Oasis" may have been host to humans for over 100,000 years before it was swallowed up by the Indian Ocean around 8,000 years ago. Rose's hypothesis introduces a "new and substantial cast of characters" to the human history of the Near East, and suggests that humans may have established permanent settlements in the region thousands of years before current migration models suppose.

I just wanted to share my most recent line of study with you guys. Virtually ever Mesopotamian civilization has has a flood story. Even Greece has a myth of a great civilization being lost to flood. The timing of this corresponds nicely with the biblical account. Yes it is a couple thousand years earlier than JWs want to say with their 6,000 years of earth history but the timing is still pretty good.

I personally believe that if you study up on this theory about the Persian gulf... the accounts in Genesis make a lot more sense. This doesn't prove inspiration or prove the existence of God. But it does suggest the bible may be a lot more historically accurate than many want to admit.

46

Wish You Knew? Ask a Jew!

by CalebInFloroda in

because on another thread questions about just what the hell jews believe kept taking us off topic, i decided to start this new one.

that's why, as you will notice, it has that new thread smell.

i will do my best to give thorough and concise answers, but be warned: i do not take myself very seriously.

little_Socrates

CHRISTIANS...What you believe is what matters.
JEWS...What good you bring into the world is what matters.
CHRISTIANS...Your personal salvation is a priority.
JEWS...Bringing healing to where it is needed is the priority.
CHRISITANS...If you believe in the wrong doctrines it can cost you eternal life.
JEWS...Beliefs hold no power to give you something you don't possess or have the power to achieve on your own.
CHRISTIANS...You are more enlightened with your convictions than that of others and must convince or even bring down those who disagree with your views.
JEWS...You are enlightened by all you meet for all are created in G-d's image (so to speak), and you must protect and fight for the right of freedom of conscience for all.

Being Catholic and looking at this.... I got to say I identify much heavier with the Jewish position here. It is really remarkable how closely tied our great faiths are.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

little_Socrates

How are you a dick if you accept the same fate as you subject others to? It isn't like God says "You suffer while I just sit on my throne".

God got off his throne and suffered with us.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

little_Socrates

"Spoken from the Ivory Tower"

I don't understand this statement... Do you know me and my life? Do you think I have never suffered? Thant I have never come across hard times? I am human therefore I suffer. I can't compare my suffering others, I don't know the depths of their pain... but on the same token you shouldn't judge me either.

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

little_Socrates

Viviane that isn't what I said and not what I meant. I think I made my point clearly...

Yes I did use Christian theology to answer this question... but the skeptics also use Christian scriptures and traditions to try and argue the other side of this issue.

63

How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda in

while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

little_Socrates

Cabinfloroda

Thank you for your response... Yes I didn't use the best language to make my point but I thiink you understood me anyways. So the issue with the Septuagint has as much to do with when it was written as much as it did with what language it was written in?

Yes I have no idea what words the historical person of Jesus might have used... however the literary character of Jesus does quote them. An interesting factoid.... I heard it explained that Matthew was a scribe. That being his job he knew short hand and was accustom to taking notes. Many scholars now believe that the book of Matthew might actually contain exact word for word quotes of Jesus.

63

How the Watchtower Screws Up Your View of Scripture

by CalebInFloroda in

while i do not argue the stand of atheism (because as a jew i find it totally logical and acceptable), i have noticed that there are odd carryover preconceptions about scripture that some hold as axiomatic about the bible (at least the hebrew texts), misconceptions that have nothing to do with the jewish scriptures themselves.. so regardless of what you may think of scripture, whether you believe it is of g-d or not, i thought some of you might enjoy a reference to see how much the watchtower teaching on scripture might still be influencing the conclusions you are making today...at least about the tanakh.

jews read their texts acknowledging the following:.

1. no scriptural concept of original sin.

little_Socrates

CalebinFloroda.... you say that certain texts where removed because they where Greek and not Hebrew.(yes I know a horrible oversimplification)

Yes when the scriptures where being gathered there was no evidence for those scriptures in Hebrew. However it is my understanding that modern scholarship has decided that there is evidence that those texts where originally in Hebrew. What is your take on this?

Also it is interesting to note that Jesus quotes the Septuagint many many times. So we do know that in the time of Christ that those texts where widely distributed and respected.

little_Socrates

Posts by little_Socrates

CalebinFloroda.... you say that certain texts where removed because they where Greek and not Hebrew.(yes I know a horrible oversimplification)

Yes when the scriptures where being gathered there was no evidence for those scriptures in Hebrew. However it is my understanding that modern scholarship has decided that there is evidence that those texts where originally in Hebrew. What is your take on this?

Also it is interesting to note that Jesus quotes the Septuagint many many times. So we do know that in the time of Christ that those texts where widely distributed and respected.