who told you that the world should be free from suffering?.
do you find any value in suffering?.
do you think it is possible to experience all the beauty and goodness and pleasure the world offers without also experiencing the bad?
I am saying that there is value in suffering in that it is those who suffer and those who empathize with them who fight hardest for change.
Wait, so let's use an example here. You're saying that there is value in, say, child sex trafficking because it could stop some child sex trafficking later? You're saying that rape is OK because people might try harder to stop future rape?
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
????
!!!!
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Who are we to disagree?
Just because we don't agree, and it doesn't make sense to us (and maybe not even to them), it is their choice.
Life is much better spent with a smile on our face and with a happy heart rather than being in turmoil over the choices of others. If they want to live a different lifestyle, they'll decide to do it when they are ready...just like we did.
So you're cool with letting children die because of religion? You're cool with Mormon cults that do child marriage? You're cool with beheadings that fundamentalist Muslims believe it is their holy duty to perform?
After all, it's not hurting you, right?
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
This is a nice way of saying they are stupid. Even so, "an astoundingly poor use of those skills" may be their choice and not a mental ailment. I argue that it is their choice.
My words don't belong to you and you don't get to pretend they mean something so you can falsely change them to make whatever point you are attempting.
When you decide to make a point without being dishonest about what I said, then you are welcome to discuss this again.
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Viviane and all the other religious faith haters
Well, you start out 100% wrong. I don't hate religious faith. It's more like falafel to me. I don't hate it, I just have never tried any I like. Everyone tells me it's delicious, but I've no use for it in any way.
Why all the hostility, why do you have so much angst for people of faith?
You've never seen me hostile, so you really are speaking of things you don't understand. Perhaps you mistake an open and honest discussion about ideas where BS woo answers that make no sense aren't accepted and an easy pass for hostility against people?
Also, realize that even in the world of science and medicine, there are unknowns, and have been miscalculations and error. Does it make them ignorant because of that, or any less intelligent for putting forth something that was understood at the time to be correct but now after refinements and increased knowledge the answers or solutions have been modified.
So, you clearly don't know how science works. Science is based upon NOT knowing everying. "I don't know" is the driving force behind all of science. Science and scientist don't claim to have the answers, they claim to have the highest state of knowledge of how things work that is currently possible and know, hope, even, for better knowledge to come along. You have science 100% backwards.
Why can't scientific people simply say "I don't know"? What is wrong with that level of honesty?
That, in fact, is the driving force behind science. We don't know things, so they keep looking. We know some things we think aren't right, so we keep looking. You COMPLETELY get science backwards.
Look, I apologize, I am being really sarcastic to make a point, and I do understand what you’re conveying, but please do not categorize all theologians or religious persons of faith as unreasoned or illogical, and for the smart ass that wants to argue faith and reason is mutually exclusive, do not waste your time.
No need to apologize. You *think* you are being sarcastic but that's only because you have everything you said backwards.
All and all, there are many viewpoints to each side, I make no claim to having the correct side, but I do get to form my own conclusions without prejudice or fear of malice.
Absolutely. Should, however, you choose to bring those conclusions up in a public forum, they will be treated as any other irrational idea. One side has evidence, the other side has people that get upset when their continual claims prove false.
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
I'm not claiming any of the items you mentioned here. So I can understand why you don't buy it.
Then I don't understand what your point is. Mine is that they clearly have some reasoning and logic skills, then demonstrate astoundingly poor use of those skills.
i am sure that president obama's saying today that mandatory voting in the usa would be a good thing is going to get the witnesses all excited as they look forward to being persecuted for not voting.
just another sign showing how deep we are into the times of the end and how close they are to burying billions of people who don't read the watchtower.. sour grapes .
And where was the war that should have ensued against the Rothschilds that were responsible?
rev 9 : 1 and the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and i saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key of the shaft of the bottomless pit; 2 he opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft.. this is the fifth trumpet .
when the pit or well is opened it says , and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft .
now for something to darken the sun from the viewpoint of earths observers it must be some incredible event.
for those who think that belief or the possibility of intelligent design means you must accept or believe everything or anything you have heard about god or a god is incorrect.
i'll quote one line from the article, " but intelligent design, unlike creationism, is not based upon the bible.
design is an inference from biological data, not a deduction from religious authority.
For those who think that belief or the possibility of intelligent design means you must accept or believe everything or anything you have heard about God or a god is incorrect.
ID is inherently unscientific and trades in God and woo, despite any protests or claims otherwise.
several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.
i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.
indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.
Maat13, you're basically claiming they have no reasoning skills or are mentally undeveloped, yet they can display a high level of reasoning skills and abilities in other areas of their life. I'm not buying that.
Phizzy, I knew how you meant it :)
