Viviane

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Posts by Viviane

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  40

  The mathematical probability of spontaneous order (no designer/creator)

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there seem to be many prerequisites for life as we know it.. to name a few: order, function, compatibility, availability, sustainability, intelligence, consciousness, intuition and so on.. focusing on only one, namely order.. what are the chances of order arising spontaneously, by chance, with no creator/designer?.

  i have often pondered this and recently came across a mathematical summary of the big picture:.

  if every particle in the known physical universe (10^80 particles), participated in one trillion interactions (10^12 interactions) per second, for the entire 30 billion years of the universe's existence (10^18 seconds), then we would by now have covered only 10^110 permutations.. if you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?.

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  Viviane

  If anyone could provide a straightforward and understandable explanation of what they feel is wrong with the math that would be great.

  The premise that we got to this world by a random progression of serial events.

  For me the building blocks and laws of chemistry give evidence of substantial order.

  Why?

  This order too could not have arisen by chance without a designer and law maker - using exactly the same math as before.

  Why? And, even if we were to grant that as true, where did this designer get HIS order, which must be even MORE complex. Now it cannot exist without a designer, and that designer can't exist without a designer, etc., etc.

  You've not solved the problem, you're simply created a problem of infinite regression.
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  40

  The mathematical probability of spontaneous order (no designer/creator)

  by Fernando in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there seem to be many prerequisites for life as we know it.. to name a few: order, function, compatibility, availability, sustainability, intelligence, consciousness, intuition and so on.. focusing on only one, namely order.. what are the chances of order arising spontaneously, by chance, with no creator/designer?.

  i have often pondered this and recently came across a mathematical summary of the big picture:.

  if every particle in the known physical universe (10^80 particles), participated in one trillion interactions (10^12 interactions) per second, for the entire 30 billion years of the universe's existence (10^18 seconds), then we would by now have covered only 10^110 permutations.. if you had only 100 components in a container, what are the chances that a blindfolded person could lay them out in order on a table?.

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  Viviane

  I see that the example gets math, chemisty and physics horribly wrong.
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  9

  Crazy stupid bible, found another problem concerning Jesus death story, and its funny too

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  matthew 27:50-54new international version (niv).

  50 and when jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.. 51 at that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

  the earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open.

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  Viviane

  Good catch. I never noticed that either. Something to add to the list of "this don't make no sense".
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Like with this pizza instance, there is a big difference between a gay person entering the restaurant and them refusing to make them pizza vs them asking them to drive to, attend, and cater their wedding.

  No, there really isn't. The business provides a service. They do that as part of a social contract in the form of a permit, by accepting money, providing goods and services in exchange for that money and paying taxes and accepting the protections and services that the taxes EVERYONE pays for, roads, power service, water, police and fire, etc.

  Why do you think the business should have the benefits of government services that people pay for so the business can make money and then turn away people that paid for the very things the business relies on to stay running?
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Disagree. The culture in which those kids are raised in reinforces/normalizes such thought and behavior in school and elsewhere. They're not going to be embarrassed by their parents unless perhaps they're living in a mostly liberal region.

  But that's exactly the effect we have seen over the past several generations.

  I doubt that homophobia will drop anymore than racism has in the red states

  Racism has dropped dramatically. I hope to see homophobia do the same.
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  57

  The Bible Gods Word or Mans

  by azor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i remember studying this book years ago and how it impacted my belief system.

  i no longer believe the bible is god's word.

  however i do have a couple of lingering questions on this subject.

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  Viviane

  1- The Bible is not a scientific book but when it touches on science it is accurate. e.g. earth is hanging upon nothing,

  No, the Bible is not at all in any way scientifically accurate. The Earth is orbiting the Sun because of gravity, not "nothing".

  placed above the circle of the earth. Is this the first time in history this was mentioned?

  The earth is not a circle. Wrong again!

  The Bible for the first time introduces a singular monotheistic god that exists outside of time and space.

  The Bible is incredibly polytheistic.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Agree, we all want a better place where discrimination is based solely on merit. You just don't fight dogma with more dogma. Let the idiots ridicule themselves into oblivion. That's a better way to deal with religious zealots.

  I have no idea what the fark you are talking about.

  The best way to fight religious and other bigotry is with shameless mocking.

  Don't feed their sense of persecution and therefore a divine purpose.

  Feed the hell out of it. Kids are always embarrassed by their parents. When their parents are shamelessly mocked for being utterly stupid, the kids with figure it out. Homophobic bigotry will drop by magnitudes in a single generation.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Why break the pattern now? You've been doing that very thing throughout this discussion at various times. You respond before you read. I made that very observation three days ago way back on page 3 of this discussion! You've been running in circles telling folks what they think and disregarding clear and unambiguous statements of the same folks declaring what they think. Your argument looks like this: I say so, so it must be true regardless of what you say you think.

  <fartnoise.jpg>

  Same as before, didn't bother with whatever dumb thing you just said.
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  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  I have no problem whatsoever reading "BS" keyboard by your hand to mean what I've just told you in expressly stated language is rejected by you as something other than what I'm thinking. You don't even address that response coming from you for what it says in terms of YOU telling me that YOU know what I'm thinking better than I know what I'm thinking.

  <fartpicture.jpg>

  It's all you deserve at this point. I honestly didn't even bother reading it.
• 
  274

  Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

  "oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

  you're fired!"..

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  Viviane

  Jeff,

  edit feature is acting a little wonky, what I meant to say is "Huh? No one ever said a religion was not or not necessarily a legal entity. I said they weren't necessarily incorporated"