Viviane

Joined

• started 16 topics
• posted 4,484 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Viviane

• 
  99

  Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

  by willmarite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

  she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

  i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  That's what I'm talking about

  Which is exactly the opposite of what the golden rule actually says.
• 
  99

  Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

  by willmarite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

  she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

  i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I really don't think that the Golden Rule would have endured the test of time if it was as stupid as some here are trying to make it seem.

  Most people rarely follow the golden rule. Instead, they follow generally accepted customs in their society and defer to other people's wishes and desires.

  It's actually obvious. I'm hungry, so I want YOU to eat something. So I can follow the Golden Rule. Come on, people. It's a good rule. Quit bickering about every little thing.

  The golden rule is one of those things that sounds great until you actually think about what it's saying and follow it to it's logical conclusion. As far as bickering, sounds like you're the one with the problem, so feel free to exit the thread or quit partaking. What you aren't free to do is to tell me what to do.
• 
  72

  Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

  by humblepotato in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

  first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

  all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Yes, we are easily fooled. The mind is capable of all sorts of self deceptions. Life without God leaves the mind and emotions to itself. Sometimes we get things right, sometimes we don't. The mind and emotions are capable of extraordinary feats of deception to try and make sense of things.

  So Perry's argument is "Perry is easily fooled, therefore we should all believe in an invisible person in the sky"?

  Wow.
• 
  99

  Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

  by willmarite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

  she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

  i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  What you're calling caveats are derived from the GR, specifically from asking oneself "Would I like it if this were done to me?". If it fails that test, then whatever action you're taking is not the Golden Rule.

  What I am calling caveats are actual, literal caveats. They also aren't from the golden rule. The golden rule, at best, allows for asking that, but it doesn't say to do that. You are adding on to the golden rule to make it work and no amount of pretending the golden rule says something it doesn't will change that.

  The Golden Rule is a maxim, it does not attempt to spell out concrete actions. It provides a means of testing potential actions by placing yourself in the other persons shoes and asking "Would I like to be treated this way?"

  Do, no does not. It literally does the opposite, saying to do to people what you would want done to you. Any concern for the other person's wishes is outside of the golden rule. You are pretending the golden rule says something it does not.

  The Golden Rule does not attempt to place you over the other; it is specifically designed to counter that by asking you to place yourself in the shoes of the other person. ("Would I want this done to me?").

  Again, the golden rule doesn't say that at all. It literally says to do the opposite of that.
• 
  99

  Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

  by willmarite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

  she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

  i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  I don't think they're skippable, Vivian.

  They aren't in the golden rule. They are things YOU are adding. They are completely skippable by anyone else.

  I'd start by asking would I like someone else to skip them for me?

  Again, that's YOU. Not everyone would interpret it that way.

  You can't do to them as they'd like to have done if you don't know them, so you start with little knowledge and use the Golden Rule to guide your way forward.

  The golden rule doesn't say to do unto them as they would like. You've got what it says exactly backwards.
• 
  72

  Coping With Atheism (Long-ish Post...sorry!)

  by humblepotato in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  long time lurker (2009-ish), first time poster.

  first of all, i want to say thank you everyone who contributes to these boards and provokes stimulating conversations and thought processes.

  all the opinions and different perspectives are very enlightening.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  The Bible does not instruct us to anoint people with shampoo.

  No, but it does condone and endorse rape, slavery, genocide, abortion, murder and theft. Your god, but his own standards, is the biggest sinner of all and a bit of a shit weasel.
• 
  99

  Golden Rule: Pure Garbage?

  by willmarite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on another thread a poster made the comment that the golden rule was garbage.

  she said it was arrogant and made assumptions.. i didn't want to derail that thread so i started another wondering if this is a common thought about this belief on this forum.

  i guess i naively thought the value of doing to others as you want them to do to you was generally accepted as positive.. i understand people have different opinions of jesus as a person but i don't want to get into that here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Not to start with, Vidiot. The GR would start with mutual respect,empathy and an and allowance for differences because you'd hope they'd take that into consideration when dealing with you. (the GR).
  You can't just skip these general considerations and go leaping straight for the rope!

  If you were following the golden rule, those caveats are completely skippable and in the spirit of the golden rule.

  It's not very golden when you have to add caveat after caveat to make it functional.
• 
  118

  "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth . ."

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so where did god exist before he created the heavens?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  It is difficult to deal with these big questions, but if respected theorists work with the idea that time and an ur-space existed prior to our universe's it shows it is within the realm of possibilities.

  It sure is. Please stop stating those things as fact.

  My remark on "dark matter" being absorbed is a honest mistake: I thought and meant to write "Dark Energy" I remember distinctly reading in one of the science journal sites, that the accelerated expansion of the universe, that would require added energy, is fuelled by the Dark Energy of the void that the universe expands into.

  It happens. And yes, the accelerated expansion is fueled by something. A very very unknown something. We've no idea if it being absorbed since we've no actual idea what it is.
• 
  54

  Polytheism in the Book of Daniel, a late second temple religious document

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.

  i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.

  so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  Therefore mimicking the first century Christian by following Jesus example. Isn’t it always the way Viviane? But yes I do pity you, don’t worry.

  Mimicking someone who thought slavery, rape and genocide? Yet you pity me?

  Christians are weird. Please don't ever stand close to me, I don't want to get any of your pity on me.

  Theology is not heighten by secular understanding of a textbook. True theology is not understood any better other than spiritual enlightenment. This is a personal journey and achievement. Confusing theology by comparing other propositions in different faiths, reverses the notion of true knowledge.

  Yet millions of other theist would disagree with you. I wonder where you got the hubris and arrogance to speak for "true" theology and theologians.

  Ex-Witnesses by far that never understood theology and all its element’s involved within make precisely that claim. Higher education has no substantive claim especially when it comes to Christian Theology. I.e. I don’t need my PhD to realize biblical truth. There will never be a comparison between secular knowledge of the bible to bible knowledge itself

  Yes, we've known for quite a while that the dumber you are, the more devoted to your faith you are.

  A true Christians understands bible principles by faith as you stated, such as 1 Corinthians 4:1-5 to not allow those that pretended to know the truth but never had it to be subjective verses to be objective to bible principles as Jesus did without being trained in secular knowledge but through Gods holy spirit.

  True Christians? Again, you are arbiter of who is a "true" Christian and who isn't? Tell me, when did Jesus return to earth to bestow this honorific upon you as Judge and Arbiter of the Dumberest?
• 
  54

  Polytheism in the Book of Daniel, a late second temple religious document

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.

  i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.

  so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Viviane

  This is what happens when people begin to over reach and quantify words. The concept of linguistics is to reform language to become understandable for the commonwealth of its own society and culture.

  I can only imagine why an apologist for the WT and the Bible would bristle at the idea of quantifying words and meanings. Actually, I can't only imagine. It's so you can pretend to know things while spouting woo and pretending you know something.