Posts by Viviane

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Who should you believe? I don't know who you should beleive as I am neither your rabbi or your guru.

Then why are you here promoting your idea of truth? Why are you making claims about what all people need?

I however beleive that all humanity has the need to be fulfilled by something beyond the superficial.

Why do you believe that?

When you take what the afore mentioned said in its simplest terms they encouraged

Nope, not at all. Your imagining what you want them to have said rather than addressing what they actually said.

Muhammad taught these principles yet fought in wars.
Jesus taught these principles yet upheld the mosaic law.
Bhudda taught these principles while denying all his desires.

Mohammed had sex with children. Jesus endorsed slavery and rape. Buddha said to deny yourself pleasure and desire.

None of those teaching you claim they made are in any way compatible with their actions or actual teachings.

14

Missing the point?! Is this what Jesus had in mind??

by Deltawave in

is this what jesus had in mind?

to be a spiritual person you must:.

underline your books.

Viviane

We do have a spiritual need, a thirst for something beyond the superficial, but all the great spiritual teachers such as Jesus, Muhammad, Bhudda and Ghandi all taught that true spirituality in cultivated from within and not from religious culture.

So, curious, who authorized you to tell me what I need? Where do you get off making claims about what everyone needs and making claims about what is true and what isn't? What is the source of that arrogance and hubris?

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Study the works of spiritually influential people from all cultures and see what conclusion you draw

You're ducking the question. You're here promoting your view. Why should I give your view any credence?

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

Hitler, Starlin and other dictators did not start spiritual movements based on spirituality

I never said they did. I simply used your bad to show that they must have had truth as well based on the standards you used. And Nazism was steeped in religion and mysticism, BTW.

Jesus spoke out against the religious hypocrisy and dogma of a law that was still regarded as godly

Jesus spoke out about religious leaders while simultaneously endorsing the religion itself, one that promoted rape, slavery and genocide.In fact, he wrote that the law was perfect and not one letter of that law would pass away.

Seriously, do you actually know at all what Jesus said?

Hope this is not side stepping what you asked. Thanks xx

That's exactly what you are doing.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Wow Viviane, your mind is amazing.

Indeed it is. You're still ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

Jesus would be heavily influenced by Judaism as he was raised under it. Bhudda was raised in a hindu culture which I fluency his words too. But when you look at what these men said there is a common thread.

Yes, of course. No one denied that in any way. You're still ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

Love yourself
Love your neighbours
Cultivate the inner person/ mind and heart.

Buddha taught that getting rid of cravings and desire were the key to happiness. How is self denial of pleasure, asceticism, loving yourself? How is denying yourself sexual pleasure or a good meal with a loved one loving yourself?

Jesus taught that the law was perfect, therefore beating slaves to the point of death was great. That same perfect law endorsed forcing raped virgins to marry their rapist. How is that loving your neighbor?

I don't beleive Jesus desired his followers to claim spirituality by:
Underlining a study book
Answering set question correctly to a paragraph
Doing jobs at a Kingdom hall to show spiritual advancement.

And I'm not asking about any of that. You're ducking the question.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Viviane

Shame on you Perry, your not known to be intellectually dishonest

Odd, that's exactly what I think of when Perry comes to mind.

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Viviane, my comment above is neither to promote myself or the teachings of a religious order.

I never said it was. You're simply ducking the question I posed to you.

Who should I believe? You or the person before or after you claiming to have it right about spirituality when you are all claiming different things?

When you take away religious dogma and read what the great spiritual leaders actually said they all were United in their views as to the keys to a happy life.

They all said different things. Which of them should I believe? Is there any proof that following the Law or meditating and denying yourself pleasure in life will make you a better person?

Religion can always be twisted, but the fact that the words and teachings of these men have effected the minds and hearts of billions shows there must be truth in their words.

So, using that logic, it's a "fact" that there must have been truth Stalin's words, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc.

They all spoke out against organised religions and taught true spirituality is cultivated within and that outward religious piety hindered true spirituality.

No, not quite. Jesus spoke out against the people in charge, but was himself called a rabbi and said the Law of his religion (which endorsed slavery, rape and murder) was perfect and would never pass away.

Curious, have you actually read what Jesus said or are you basing this on what you imagine Jesus to have said?

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

Viviane

I have presented the doctrinal statement that atheist scientists adhere to as stated by Professor Lewontin several times over the years. I have never had any atheist deny those tenets on this forum.

No, you haven't because it's impossible. It's a lie. Atheists simply lack belief in god. They aren't organized and don't have "doctrine". Nor do scientists.

You're being completely dishonest.

113

Are you religious or are you spiritual? Wake up to what?

by Deltawave in

there is a huge difference between been religious and been spiritual.

been religious is about been superior to others in the sight of god.

however, been spiritual is about self awareness, inner peace and unity with the natural world.

Viviane

Who should I believe, you or the person before your or the person after you that tells me something very different about what spirituality is, all of you claiming to have it right?

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

Viviane

I thought the whole point of Jesus and the apostles was to free people from oppressive religious systems.

Religions keep saying that because they want to use the OT when it suits them without having to deal with the genocide, rape, slavery and murder bits that God loved, but they forget Jesus saying the Law was perfect, the same that endorsed all of that horrible stuff.

Reading the Bible and actually reading what it says rather than what people tell you it says is rather eye opening.

160

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! in

i've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.

really?

and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..

Viviane

There's a tremendous amount of vitriol in the comments, both generally and in some cases toward me directly, that I find quite curious and immensely telling. I'm not certain what motivates some to such negativity and animus.

BJ, your lies and support for an organization that has killed, endorsed sacrificing your life, requires absolute devotion to an ever changing, vapid theology and allowes child rape might factor in to that a bit.