The reason, Simon, that I say I respect the right to hold belief (even if it's racist) is that new and great ideas and beliefs are often radical things far outside the norm that initially are met with derision and ridicule until we think through them and social intertia changes. For instance, at one point in my life, the ideal of gay marriage was ludicrious. Once I thought about it in terms of marriage equality, my thinking began to change. It's not mine or anyone else's place to tell someone they have no right to hold a belief (IMHO), but we do have the right to respond to it as we see fit (within the bounds of legality).
Viviane
JoinedPosts by Viviane
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Cappy, I am a sweet, lovable person that loves to gve. I never had demands and I am never blistering. I am simply merciless in the arena of ideas, as I believe we all should be.
To quote Cofty (which I've done a few times in real life), I don't want to be wrong any longer than necessary. If I am saying something wrong or using bad logic, math or reasoning, please show me and don't spare my feelings. I'm a big girl and I can handle it.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
That's a perfect example of making an assumption. I understood the question to mean you were asking me personally what beliefs I respect. I either missed your request for input on the list you provided or misunderstood the question.
That doesn't mean reticence on my part to answer, which (to me) is what it means to have to drag an answer out of someone.
I'm not complaining, just using that as an example :)
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
None of them, LUHE. -
372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Because they often use the "mock outrage and martyrdom" as a cynical way to silence criticism of their idiotic beliefs.
My friends and I call that poutrage. -
372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Respecting the right to hold a belief in no way implies that the way a person goes about determining that belief is rational. In much the same way I beleive everyone has the right to free speech, I may think how they decide to exercise that right is stupid.
I respect, in general, lofty ideals that stive to make the world better, to help those that need it, that provide opportunity for the betterment of all. I respect getting things done and not just sitting around talking about them (even if I disagree with what they are doing, I have to admire them getting it done). I respect the notion of looking at all sides of issues. I respect chilling the F out and relaxing every now and then.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Respect his right to hold belief, not the belief itself.
I'm sitting in the airport waiting on a delayed flight. Meh.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
But with regards to a person believing in God, or the Trinity, I feel these things can't be proven and are subject to faith.
I have no problem with someone believing in those things. If they want to talk to me about it, then they have to expect a diiscussion instead of preaching. If they want to use them to affect public policy for everything then they damn well better show proof or expect the consequences of making evidence free assertions.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
LUHE, it's not "my take". It's factually true and I can back up every bit of it with incontext quotes and evidence. I can ALWAYS backup what I post.
With regard to respecting belief, it's an idea someone holds. Someone liking chocolate over vanilla is not something that dserves or has anything to do with respect, IMO. NAMBLA, antivaxxers and people that use religion to deny medical care to children are hurting others because of their wacky beliefs. Far from being deserving of respect, they deserve derision and ridicule. They not only add nothing, they actively hurt people.
Why should I respect the uninformed belief of someone to lazy to research on a topic? Why should I respect the belief of a misogynist that women are second class? Or a racist that believes in white supremacy?
Those beliefs hurt people and make the entire world worse. They aren't deserving of anything except the dustbin of history.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
So, enough time has pass that I feel comfortable writing this.
With regard to the idea of respecting everyone's belief, I categorically deny that we should be doing that. If anyone is interested I am happy to discuss why.
With regard to how we treat others, this thread was a wonderful mmicrocosm to view how people view "fairness" and principles.
For example, we had several posters decide to have a "Bash Viv" event because, in their opinion, I treat people poorly. A lot of claims were made and an interesting thing happened. The people most vocal about treating others with respect and nicely did a few things:
- Lied about me
- Made vague and baseless accusations and said up front they weren't going to bother even trying to show their claims had any basis in fact
- Quote mined me out of context and cherry picked things I had written
- Two posters tried to suggest I have emotion or mental disorder to denigrate me
- I was called names
Don't worry, no one on the internet has the ability to alter my mood or affect my feelings. I did find it somewhat amusing but, what I found really interesting was how it unfolded.
It appears that those most claiming to want fair and nice treatment for all actually have no problem with any of the above behavior as long as it is being done to someone they don't like. In other words, it's not a principled stand or position, but rather an emotional response to perceived hurt and a willingness to lash out in turn as long as they feel safe doing it. It's the emotional and mental equivalent of spanking your kids to show them hitting is wrong.
It was quite an interesting thing to see, particularly since I called out their behavior and asked, specifically, if anyone would call it out. I don't want to go on and on about it, but I did want to say, the conclusion I reached after watching that fascinating event unfold is that these posters remind me of the preacher that rants against homosexuality and drugs. It's likely a safe bet he will soon be caught in the backseat of a male hookers car while smoking meth. Similarly, the most vocal complainers about treatment are more than willing to happily engage in the behavior they deccry, as long as they do it do the right person.