as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.
i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.
so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.
This is what happens when people begin to over reach and quantify words. The concept of linguistics is to reform language to become understandable for the commonwealth of its own society and culture.
I can only imagine why an apologist for the WT and the Bible would bristle at the idea of quantifying words and meanings. Actually, I can't only imagine. It's so you can pretend to know things while spouting woo and pretending you know something.
hey guys!
some of you might know about my latest clash with the elders.
i see the pressure this cult is putting on my family.
Anyway, I think we should organize ourselves and take action against this cult. I see it as a moral duty to prevent more lives getting wasted by the evil corporation. What do you guys think? What's the best way to take WT down (partially at least)?
It's not going to happen, but for the sake or argument, let's pretend it could.
How exactly do you see this happening? How do we organize? How do we rise to the top? How do we ensure no one is a mole that will get us all DF'ed? How do you deal with those that want reform vs. outright desolation vs. those that want to convert everyone to another Jesus cult vs. those preaching another religion?
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
You quoted the Bible to begin with, and you requested an opinion, and you asked a question about heaven according to the Bible. But now you say that resorting to the Bible to answer a question doesn't work. I did not request to see anything from you. I was only trying to answer your questions that you asked on this thread. THE END.
Incorrect. He was asking a question about the logic of what the Bible says. Using more illogic from the Bible isn't answering the question, nor does making false claims about what the Bible says.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
I wasn't responding to you. My post was a continuation of my response to Nicolaou. Since I wasn't able to amend my first post to him with the related information, I had to post the additional information on a separate post. Besides that, the term Almighty says it all.
Then you should have made that more clear.
"Almighty" says nothing about creation.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
If you are trying to compare or convert to physical space or location to define what heavens is, In terms of understanding what the spirit heavens is, some Bible verses say that it stands for God himself or his throne.
I wasn't, I just simply pointing out the Bible never says God was uncreated. Also, no one understands what spirit is. No one can tell us what it is made of, what it is, how to detect it... nothing. Using the word "spirit" to explain anything is simply pretending to know while using undefined words.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
God is the only eternal, uncreated reality "according to the Bible."
The Bible never says God was uncreated.
he had a human father.. all those doctrines of redemption, ransom and forgiveness come to nothing in the face of reality.
we need to look after each other..
There is an old Portuguese saying: "Before putting head on chopping block, be sure to have a hammer and a ruler in your pocket. First, hit rock with hammer, then use your ruler-if you know."
Do you ever try to make sense?
it's hard enough for businesses to enter these areas the government once had to offer up tax breaks to service them.
in watts, california it took decades for city residents to get a grocery store after the thugs burned their businesses to the ground.
you can see the insanity taking place, when you allow mobs and fools to burn building down nothing good comes from it.
The 'thugs' of this country have two agendas, 1. Thugs should be allowed to be dressed in thug attire and walk around nice middle and upper class areas or go into malls and areas they intend to rob with hoodies drawn up high without any trouble from police or guards and also able to attack, run away, or not ever be confronted or held accountable.
And yet we hand them, badges, guns and uniforms and pay them. Weird.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
rather than unsubstantiated critique, which contributes nothing*, tackle the points point by point starting with Penrose's detailed 'pre-beginning' work.
So you want me to critique your word salad by starting with Roger Penrose? Why would I do that? That doesn't make any sense.
Roger Penrose has a hypothesis with no proof, a mathematical model (with no observation to back it up) regarding the inflation of the early universe. He thinks that he has found evidence, gravitational wave in the CMBR, that show that time and space existed before the big bang and the universe is going through one of many cycles. One central tenet to his theory is that the late state universe will look very similar to the early universe, meaning particles will decay entirely and lose mass. In Penrose's model, the universe is expanding into existing time and space. It's a controversial and unproven model with many things still not matching observed reality.
So, in your first sentence, you went off the rails. There is no evidence that dark matter fuels expansion. In fact, it's gravitationally attractive and holds things together. Dark matter being absorbed? Absorbed where and by what? No one has even actually detected it yet, so saying it get's absorbed and turned into energy is so off base it's not even wrong.
What are you claiming is the void? If you are relying on Penrose, his hypothesis requires time and space already exist. Is that what you are claiming is the void? What do you mean by that? Nothing? Something? What is latent energy? Virtual fluctuations? Do you perhaps mean vacumn energy and virtual particles? Because those ARE actual things, but not the things you describe. What does any of this have to do with Genesis? Why are you jumbling word salad together and claiming it is fact? Why are you taking Sir Roger Penrose's hypothesis and pretending it is fact?
There is your definition of "NOTHING"
Yes, your word salad was exactly that.
so where did god exist before he created the heavens?
nicolaou, re: the void the universe expands into, one recent finding has it, that the universe's ACCELERATED expansion is fueled by dark matter that is absorbed as the expansion takes place, new energy coming in all the time, from the void the universe expands into. Latent energy is a property of the void, hence virtual fluctuations preceding the beginning. (Gen1:1 discuuses the beginning of the same physical heavens, wrong though it is.) Please read Sir Roger Penrose, space, time existing before our universe's beginning seriously.
Not one single word of that is in any way a "recent finding" or "biblical". That's just a jumbled nonsensical word salad of physics terms.
