Posts by Viviane

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

following are some gems I found, author will remain anonymous although they will likely recognize their handiwork:

Those ARE gems and I wrote most if not all, I believe. Great examples of witty, on topic and in context brilliance.

Since you clearly have a problem with me, can you show me where I called anyone stupid, lazy, an asshole, etc? How is it derogatory to point out that someone doesn't have knowledge of the topic they are discussing? How is voicing my opinion on religion insulting someone? Explain, please, how pointing out the misogyny in dismissing female posters comments as "oh, you must be PMSing" insulting anyone? BTW, one of those you posted was me and Morpheus, who get along swimmingly, bantering and joking about Van Halen, so it's clear you're cherry picking without context.

Tell me, if that is the situation, why should we listen to you? If the only problem is that you find them objectionable (which is what Lisa asked Eden for), well, then, I'm very strongly apathetic to that. If I am insulting someone, well, then we should address that specifically, but so far you've not shown a single example of that.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

Another common way to do this is that, before responding to anything, you first make comments like:
"I read your muddled, contradictory and poorly argued post and you did not consider..."

Agreed. It is ridiculous to make assertions like that before responding (although technically that is a response and, as you rightly point out, often an accurate one). It is far better to use words like that (when those descriptors are accurate, of course) only after responding to the post in an objective, factual reality based manner.

Of course, no one should be bothered by accurate descriptors of reality. Some are, naturally, and there is nothing that can be done about that, but every effort should be made to ensure that those accurate descriptors are well supported by data and that the accurate descriptors are not personal attacks.

Bohm, do you have a specific example of someone responding in a discussion using words like "muddled" without first having addressed the argument itself?

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

Viviane

Well Vivinane, I was not trying to create a gotcha moment, my point was more simple that the Sweedish government is obviously collecting these numbers for comparison purpose, otherwise there would be no idea in collecting the numbers.

Riiiiiigt.

At any rate you can compare numbers within sweeden, for instance you can see if the influx of asylum seekers increase the number of reported rapes as someone who believe there is a connection between rapes and the number of asylum seekers might predict.

And again, correlation is not causation. Without collecting a lot more data, that statistic alone wouldn't tell you much. Did it increase per capita, including immigrants? Who were the perpetrators and the victims? Where were the crimes taking place? Simple data leads to simple conclusions that, on the surface, make "sense" but are often wrong.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Viviane

Who's been bullied?

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

Viviane

Viviane, you ought to contact the Sweedish government with this insight and tell them they are collecting numbers which are useless for any comparison. It would save those poor sweedes and awful lot of tax kronar!

Sweden part of the EU. An agency of the EU conducted these studies. They are the ones that collected the numbers and the people I quoted saying to be wary. I bet they know that, unless they collect data, they can't figure out where the holes in the data are, figure out how to get better data and figure out how to make it useful.

Of course, had you bothered to read the links instead of flail about trying to have a "gotcha" moment with me, you would see they already do know all that and you might have learned something. Alas, not to be yet again. Hope for the future, though!

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

Viviane

It is true correlation does not imply causation but it's usually indicative of it. One could for instance compare Sweeden with Norway (roughly similar but with far less immigrants) and that might allow stronger conclusions to be drawn.

Well, in this case, there are so many reasons that the numbers are off (as per the people that collected the numbers), that any comparison would be meaningless.

Also this...

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

Viviane

Well I hope you are referring to someone else because I back up everything with verifiable facts.

No, I'm referring directly to you, hence my quoting you and looking up and quoting your source. You used a source to "prove" that Sweden is experience an outbreak of rape due to immigrants. Your source directly contradicted your point. You're using sources without reading or understanding them.

The point I am making is that there is a direct correlation to the rampant increases in crime, rapes and anti-Semitism across Europe and immigration from third world nations.

Well, your sources don't support that, unfortunately, so you aren't so much "making a point" as "saying things".

I read that whole wikiarticle and found that everything after the verified rape stats was conjecture, obviously written by apologists for rapists. Nice people, I'm sure. No seriously, I find it absolutely repulsive that you are trying to discredit rape statistics. Disgusting. You'd make a great lawyer for a child rapist and sleep soundly at night.

So, you actually read your own source and, now that you realize it contradicts you, it's crap and you resort to insulting? That's some real fine detective work there, Lou.

In reality, the people that made the report cautioned that there are several problems with the numbers. That's a fact. Acting like a two year old when you find out only makes YOU look childish instead of an adult capable of dealing with reality.

155

Headline: "Islamic Invasion: Europe now scrambles for guns." How true is this?

by cappytan in

jw
friends

a year to a year and a half ago, i would have taken this article at face value and believed it.. now, i realize this article comes from a dubious source.

world news daily has a die-hard right-wing bias.

so, in an effort to get real information, i'm asking my european exjw's, is this article all true?

Viviane

Ever wonder why Sweden has the highest number of rapes per captia in the Western world and second highest amount of rapes in the entire world right after South Africa and Lesotho? Think it has anything to do with immigration from third world countries? Na, that can't be. Must be the fault of the native citizens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Well, let's look at your own source and see what it has to say....

In 2012, Sweden had 66 cases of reported rapes per 100,000 population, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå).[234] This was unequivocally the biggest number reported to the UNODC in 2012.[235] However, widely differing legal systems, offence definitions, terminological variations, recording practices and statistical conventions makes any cross-national comparison on rape statistics difficult,[236][237][238][239] which is why the UNODC itself caution against using their figures.[235] It should also be noted that many countries do not report any rape statistics at all to the UNODC,[240] and some report very low numbers, despite studies that indicate otherwise.[241][242]

The Swedish police record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries.[236][239][243] Sweden also has a comparatively wide definition of rape.[236][237][238] This means that more sexual crimes are registered as rape than in most other countries.[237] For example, in 2005 Sweden reformed its sex crime legislation and made the legal definition of rape much wider,[236][244][245][246] which led to a marked increase in reports.[247][248] Additionally, the Swedish police have improved the handling of rape cases, in an effort to decrease the number of unreported cases.[236][248][249][250] For this reason, large-scale victimisation surveys have been presented by criminologists as a more reliable indicator of rape prevalence.[236][237][238] An EU-wide survey on sexual violence against women, published theEuropean Union Agency for Fundamental Rights (FRA) in 2014, showed Sweden was only third highest, below Denmark and Finland[251] and a previous assessment by Brå have placed Sweden at an average level among European nations.[237]

In other words.... did you even read the thing you posted to understand it? Seriously, this is like, the 5th time in two days I've seen someone use documentation to "support" their position that completely undermines it. It's you aren't trying to understand the situation, but desperately looking for anything to support your position.

11

The Effects of Sexual Abstinence Before Marriage

by cofty in

very interesting article on the psychology of sexual abstinence and the effects it can have on sex life after marriage.

it focusses on an evangelical group for single men called "the river" but the attitudes will be familiar to born-in jws.. ___________________________.

..respondents had been told, since they were young, that women were nonsexual.

Viviane

People who want until marriage to have sex have a much lower divorce rate than those who engage in premarital sex.

The second link is about young teens having sex, particularly when it is unwanted, not about pre-marital sex in particular.

The third link is about a variety of factors such as how many partners, whether or not someone was into hooking up, whether or not they were faithful, to determine the quality of a marriage partner, not about pre-marital sex is particular.

Seriously, do people think no one will read their links and notice the claims don't match reality?

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

Viviane

Obviously nobody is reading objectively and that is where I see that there is something else behind some of the opinions.

Yes, it's everyone else's fault that your contradictory and muddled writing is troublesome to understand.