Because they often use the "mock outrage and martyrdom" as a cynical way to silence criticism of their idiotic beliefs.My friends and I call that poutrage.
Viviane
JoinedPosts by Viviane
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Respecting the right to hold a belief in no way implies that the way a person goes about determining that belief is rational. In much the same way I beleive everyone has the right to free speech, I may think how they decide to exercise that right is stupid.
I respect, in general, lofty ideals that stive to make the world better, to help those that need it, that provide opportunity for the betterment of all. I respect getting things done and not just sitting around talking about them (even if I disagree with what they are doing, I have to admire them getting it done). I respect the notion of looking at all sides of issues. I respect chilling the F out and relaxing every now and then.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Respect his right to hold belief, not the belief itself.
I'm sitting in the airport waiting on a delayed flight. Meh.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
But with regards to a person believing in God, or the Trinity, I feel these things can't be proven and are subject to faith.
I have no problem with someone believing in those things. If they want to talk to me about it, then they have to expect a diiscussion instead of preaching. If they want to use them to affect public policy for everything then they damn well better show proof or expect the consequences of making evidence free assertions.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
LUHE, it's not "my take". It's factually true and I can back up every bit of it with incontext quotes and evidence. I can ALWAYS backup what I post.
With regard to respecting belief, it's an idea someone holds. Someone liking chocolate over vanilla is not something that dserves or has anything to do with respect, IMO. NAMBLA, antivaxxers and people that use religion to deny medical care to children are hurting others because of their wacky beliefs. Far from being deserving of respect, they deserve derision and ridicule. They not only add nothing, they actively hurt people.
Why should I respect the uninformed belief of someone to lazy to research on a topic? Why should I respect the belief of a misogynist that women are second class? Or a racist that believes in white supremacy?
Those beliefs hurt people and make the entire world worse. They aren't deserving of anything except the dustbin of history.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
So, enough time has pass that I feel comfortable writing this.
With regard to the idea of respecting everyone's belief, I categorically deny that we should be doing that. If anyone is interested I am happy to discuss why.
With regard to how we treat others, this thread was a wonderful mmicrocosm to view how people view "fairness" and principles.
For example, we had several posters decide to have a "Bash Viv" event because, in their opinion, I treat people poorly. A lot of claims were made and an interesting thing happened. The people most vocal about treating others with respect and nicely did a few things:
- Lied about me
- Made vague and baseless accusations and said up front they weren't going to bother even trying to show their claims had any basis in fact
- Quote mined me out of context and cherry picked things I had written
- Two posters tried to suggest I have emotion or mental disorder to denigrate me
- I was called names
Don't worry, no one on the internet has the ability to alter my mood or affect my feelings. I did find it somewhat amusing but, what I found really interesting was how it unfolded.
It appears that those most claiming to want fair and nice treatment for all actually have no problem with any of the above behavior as long as it is being done to someone they don't like. In other words, it's not a principled stand or position, but rather an emotional response to perceived hurt and a willingness to lash out in turn as long as they feel safe doing it. It's the emotional and mental equivalent of spanking your kids to show them hitting is wrong.
It was quite an interesting thing to see, particularly since I called out their behavior and asked, specifically, if anyone would call it out. I don't want to go on and on about it, but I did want to say, the conclusion I reached after watching that fascinating event unfold is that these posters remind me of the preacher that rants against homosexuality and drugs. It's likely a safe bet he will soon be caught in the backseat of a male hookers car while smoking meth. Similarly, the most vocal complainers about treatment are more than willing to happily engage in the behavior they deccry, as long as they do it do the right person.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
Would you not agree that the impeccable logical speech of Spock is not a proper representitive of good thinking? Would you not agree that Dr McCoy is the more rounded thinker, because he takes imaginative and intuitiative risks?
Anytime someone starts with "Wouldn't you agree..", I've noticed the answer is almost always "No, I don't".
Off the top of my head, the episode "Galileo Seven" was an instance where Spock took a leap of faith in the crew still aboard the Enterprise, saving everyone on the shuttlecraft with an imaginative solution. OTOH, in "City on the Edge of Forever", McCoy almost destroyed all of future history by attempting to save Edith without knowing why she had to die. Spock, coolly logical in that situation, was instrumental in saving the day.
Having said, both things are needed in life. One does not trump the other in the grand scheme, there are definitely times when one type of thinking is needed. Knowledge is always helpful.
And finally...
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
A question from star-trek on the respect of the beliefs of others.
We could also ask (and have, with no answer) if someone holds the idea that we should respect others beliefs, does that include NAMBLA? Antivaxxers? Religious people who will deny their children life-saving medical care due to their religious beliefs?
Why are beliefs deserving of respect anyway?
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30
Handing out candy
by mikeypants ingrowing up my parents would barricade our home off by parking vehicles bumper to bumper - you would have to crawl under the cars or over the bumpers to get to our door.
also, we would turn off all the lights and hide in the back room away from the street.. that was the norm for me.
isnt that insane?
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Viviane
We grew up turning out the lights and hiding in the backroom as well. Last night my next door neighbors and I had two grills, 50 hotdogs, a smoker with turkey legs, ribs and chicken, about 1300 pieces of candy, a couple of coolers full of beer, wine, soda and water and had a party with spotlights illuminating the house and basically had a big party.
We ran out of candy, hot dogs, ribs, had one turkey leg and piece of chicken left over. Probably 600 kids came by for candy, friends, came over, my kids dressed up as a zombie and an ax murderer. Other neighbors stopped by, we had people we knew around town stop by, the kids ran around the neighborhood, played in the yard, played X Box, the adults had some drinks, socialized, chatted, had some laughs. Everyone had a great time.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Viviane
It was more how you treated people in general.
Is it OK for someone to call me names because of the perception that I hurt someone's else's feelings? - if not Talsin, who did you have in mind? Who's been calling you names?So you won't bother demonstrating your claim about how I treat people (not calling them names) but you want me to back mine up, even after you yourself pointed out?
I don't think so. If you want to continue this conversation, you'll need to show me exactly how you think I've treated someone that is the subject of discussion, I'm not dealing in a vague notion that's "just accepted" without proof and then asked for proof.
Feel free, everyone, to continue to dogpile. It won't hurt me but clearly is needed by some here. I'm going to be gone for a while, wallowing in misery as I go to brunch, buy some new beds for the kids, have a late lunch with my mom, clean up from our Halloween party last night.
