slimboy makes a good point. Often times the org reasons over the "fact" that God allowed Satan to rule the earth to show men the outcome. They compare this to a student challenging a teacher over a lesson. How would the teacher look if he quashed the students questioning instead of allowing him to prove his challenge? If God allowed this, who is the GB to disallow it among JWs?
StarTrekAngel
JoinedPosts by StarTrekAngel
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36
Need Help - How do I refute this???
by HappyBlessedFree inso i was talking with my husband about all the things the organization is doing ie.
hiding pedophiles, lying about what 1914 was etc.
so his response was that the nation of israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still gods chosen organization.. another topic we were talking about was disfellowshipping.
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StarTrekAngel
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36
Need Help - How do I refute this???
by HappyBlessedFree inso i was talking with my husband about all the things the organization is doing ie.
hiding pedophiles, lying about what 1914 was etc.
so his response was that the nation of israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still gods chosen organization.. another topic we were talking about was disfellowshipping.
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StarTrekAngel
Oh and it is true about the times the Jews deviated from what was right. No where does it say that you have to stick with the group during those times. Not then, not in Jesus' time. Who was Job associated with? Was he living with the rest of Moises' people? It can only be assumed.
During Jesus' time, the apostles went out and found a man that was casting demons in Jesus' name. The apostles came back to Jesus to tell him they got after the man because he was not part of their group. Jesus reprimanded them for doing that. He told them to live him alone. Some call this the case of the "lone exorcist". Put that in modern times and it could be said that Jesus confirmed you do not need to belong to the org in order to be saved. Luke 9:49 "Master,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in Your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not accompany us.”
I think there is a VERY GOOD reason that I had never read this passage in 15 years of being a JW
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20
Helping your Spouse wake up
by HappyBlessedFree inhas anyone had success in helping your spouse to wake up?
i’m thinking of showing my husband jwfacts.
he is starting to do his own research using wikipedia and google.
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StarTrekAngel
Sorry to hear Bugbear... there are some cases in which nothing will work. People attach to these groups for emotional reasons, not logical. Defeating emotion with logic is a very hard task. Those of us who value truth and transparency, did not leave because they preach the wrong religion. We left because they were not truthful and they were not transparent. I don't care if this was about God or aliens. If I joined a group about aliens I would be fine as long as they would never insist aliens are real without evidence. If they chose to twist the truth just for the sake of attracting members, then the issue with me would have nothing to do with the existence of aliens, it would have to be about a lack of transparency.
You have to find out what attracts them to it. Easier said than done.
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Need Help - How do I refute this???
by HappyBlessedFree inso i was talking with my husband about all the things the organization is doing ie.
hiding pedophiles, lying about what 1914 was etc.
so his response was that the nation of israel had times when they weren’t doing the right thing, but it was still gods chosen organization.. another topic we were talking about was disfellowshipping.
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StarTrekAngel
First demolish the "organization" idea as being from God. Research it.
The idea of organizing in hierarchical groups came from Moises father in law, likely a Pagan, idolatrous man. God may have not refused the arrangement but it definitely did not come from God.
In the new testament, the idea of doing "everything by arrangement" is too simplistic of a statement to convert it to the uniformity you find today in the org. Jesus spoke exactly against this because the Jews of the time were more organized like the org of today and they drifted into legalism and dogmatism because of it. You see the same happening today. If Jesus came back today, what would he see?
When Acts speak of the apostles sending to the elders for a resolution on the blood issue, read it carefully. There is no way to conclude that these elders were the GB of the time beyond reasonable doubt. Put into context, every book of the bible from Acts forward, is centered around the argument between Jews and gentiles. The envoy sent to the elders regarding the blood issue was more of an advisory council between opposing groups. Basically an attempt to have the Jewish leader tell their followers to look the other way in matter of food and diet that were not to become issues for which people left the truth (sounds familiar?). I can expand on this more if it doesn't make sense.
On the issue of Dfing, again has to be read into context. Like I said before, the core of the gospels after Jesus' death concentrates on two things. a- was Jesus the messiah, and b-Is salvation only for Jews or does it include gentiles whom refuse to adopt Jewish ways. With that in mind, the "division" mentioned in the bible was not between the faithful. The division among family members would come from people who denied Jesus vs those who believed in him. Not among those who committed fornication vs those who did not (the wicked). Certainly if you did commit fornication you would be somewhat isolated but never to the degree that it is seen today in JW land. To put this in perspective, think about the division you see today between the pro-Trumps and the anti-Trumps. Families and friendships have been strained because of these differences. No one has mandated this division as a rule, but you can state it as a matter of fact that these arguments and divisions do take place. In other words, Jesus knew he was going to be a cause for division, but the statement he made never pointed out that a real Christian would embrace this as a test of loyalty. He never said you need to make sure to stay away from people who denied me. If it happens, well that is sad but certainly it is not a requirement.
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Helping your Spouse wake up
by HappyBlessedFree inhas anyone had success in helping your spouse to wake up?
i’m thinking of showing my husband jwfacts.
he is starting to do his own research using wikipedia and google.
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StarTrekAngel
This is a repost from another similar OP.
Glad to hear you are taking such approach. Some of us were hit with a ton of bricks upon waking up, which meant we did not think so clearly. We just took the ton of brick and showed it to our loved ones while we pointed the finger at the GB and the org. In my case it was rough but eventually it worked. Is not without injuries but we survived.
Now for the part where I preach what I have not practiced. If your husband is so ready to do the research, sit down and do it with him. Do your research privately as well and always stay one step ahead. This place is a great resource for that. Use this to ask the right questions to steer him in the right direction. Make sure you communicate an attitude of sincere curiosity and not one of aggression towards the org. Remember that any attacks towards the org are perceived as an attack on God. JW facts may still be too raw for him but you can use JWfacts to make a collection of articles that can be studied from the watchtower directly.
I did exactly the opposite and lived in hell for close to 3 years.
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Waking your spouse
by Leopold theseconed ini am woke up for only a few months.
this how i have been waking up my wife and it’s working.
i am being extra loving.
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StarTrekAngel
Glad to hear you are taking such approach. Some of us were hit with a ton of bricks upon waking up, which meant we did not think so clearly. We just took the ton of brick and showed it to our loved ones while we pointed the finger at the GB and the org. In my case it was rough but eventually it worked. Is not without injuries but we survived.
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The origin of the word Lullaby
by StarTrekAngel inreading around the subject of lillith, the alledged, rebel first wife of adam, i stumbled upon this link and many others that link the custom of singing babies to sleep as an ancient jewish superstition.. http://www.jeanniemusick.com/lilith-world/lilith-as-the-origin-of-the-lullaby/.
some of the research could probably be argued but looking at it from the wt perspective and mirroring their usual reasoning, i could imagine the following.... ... it appears that the word "lullaby" originates from the the hebrew "lilith-abi", which means "lilith be gone".
jewish mothers used to sing these songs to their babies in bed in hopes that they would be protected from this baby snatching demon called lilith.
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StarTrekAngel
It sounded to me like a good topic of conversation to add to the list for the next time you are visited by a JW
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The origin of the word Lullaby
by StarTrekAngel inreading around the subject of lillith, the alledged, rebel first wife of adam, i stumbled upon this link and many others that link the custom of singing babies to sleep as an ancient jewish superstition.. http://www.jeanniemusick.com/lilith-world/lilith-as-the-origin-of-the-lullaby/.
some of the research could probably be argued but looking at it from the wt perspective and mirroring their usual reasoning, i could imagine the following.... ... it appears that the word "lullaby" originates from the the hebrew "lilith-abi", which means "lilith be gone".
jewish mothers used to sing these songs to their babies in bed in hopes that they would be protected from this baby snatching demon called lilith.
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StarTrekAngel
Reading around the subject of Lillith, the alledged, rebel first wife of Adam, I stumbled upon this link and many others that link the custom of singing babies to sleep as an ancient Jewish superstition.
http://www.jeanniemusick.com/lilith-world/lilith-as-the-origin-of-the-lullaby/
Some of the research could probably be argued but looking at it from the WT perspective and mirroring their usual reasoning, I could imagine the following...
... it appears that the word "lullaby" originates from the the hebrew "Lilith-abi", which means "Lilith be gone". Jewish mothers used to sing these songs to their babies in bed in hopes that they would be protected from this baby snatching demon called Lilith. Most likely the superstition originated as a way to protect infants for what we know today "crib death". As the legend goes, three angels were to protect children from Lilith. Jewish women habitually hanged three amulets on the walls near the baby's bed with the images of these angels. It would make sense to relate this amulets with modern day toys like crib mobiles and others that are usually hanged on top of cribs.
Faithfull followers of Jehovah should consider carefully whether their customs are in tune with bible teachings.
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Why did Jehovah allow Eve to become pregnant?
by moomanchu injehovah reminds me of married couples who are having problems who decide to .
have children to improve their lot.. obviuosly jehovah can prevent pregnancy.. 1 samuel 1:5,6 .
but to hannah he gave a double portion because he loved her, .
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StarTrekAngel
That is exactly right. He let her be... unlike the watchtower, he would not just get rid of sinners and bad apples. He let them flourish. That is the opposite of what we get. We are not allowed to challenge them. They are afraid we are going to make sense.
So if God... if you believe in it, allowed the wicked world to flourish and ruin everything... who is the GB to quash those who choose to leave?
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henrietta m riley
by lostsheep82 inok, there's been tons on this i know.
here's what i found and spent some time researching some of the companies.
in my search i found in 2014 boeing, lockheed martin & northrop grumman which supports the military.
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StarTrekAngel
Kramer.. if you read Franz book, there is a story there about a brother whom was forced to quit his driver job because part of his route included making deliveries to a military base
JefT... that the WT does not manage the fund directly doesn't mean they do not know what is in it.... again... what would they say if it was you at the receiving end of that account?