Is he waking up?

NeverKnew

As some of you know, I'm a non-jw dating a baptized publisher. My persistence MAY be paying off!

He came and picked me up last night and his eyes looked like two moons. I got in the car and his first words were, "you have no idea where I've been. *Neverknew*.... this is bad." Both hands went to the sides of his forehead as he leaned against the steering wheel. He was dazed.

Items he was blown away by included:

An elderly Ray Franz interview on YouTube. He said that Franz had absolutely no anger and that he was shocked by his calm demeanor.

A speaker who was explaining the destructiveness of the JW cult to a Canadian audience.

Five YouTube videos done by a guy named "truthwarrior" who talked about being told not to read the Bible alone.

The WT's involvement with the UN (I thought this was now common knowledge amongst the JWs)

Random ramblings included but were not limited to:

Saying how there was no "honorable" way to leave (that language is totally internet site lingo) and referred to the organization as a cult at least three times.

Confessing an embarrassment about going around pointing fingers at other faiths given the background of that which he's always known.

A struggling with the feeling of being alone in his knowledge amongst the JWs he knows. Now he's not sure if the elders know about these things and intentionally keeping the information away from everyone or if they don't know either.

An apology for every argument about religion between us that occured because of his now knowing the history of the organization.

A concern that nobody can provide him with answers to "What if a householder presents these questions? How do I address something I'm not allowed to know anything about?"

The term TTATT! He learned it! *grin*

The Sodom and Gomorrah flip flops

Something about Illuminatti and secret societies. I didn't touch the validity or non-validity of that. Right now, I'm just excited about where this was going.

There was more. I'll add as I go along.

My concern? I believe I'm hearing that the doctrines and the knowledge of the Bible as has been taught by the WTS is correct. He keeps saying, "now, I've never been to church, but..." so I told him to pick a denomination and I'd take him. If you don't know something - change that, right? His response? "Wait, ...what's your agenda?"

Anony Mous

Nice, you did a great job, he's finally waking up. He may be going back and forth a couple of times but support him, he's on the right track.

Resistance is Futile

You might want to gently steer him towards jwfacts.com. You can tell him you read an interesting article there, and want to get his opinion on it.

He keeps saying, "now, I've never been to church, but..." so I told him to pick a denomination and I'd take him.

You should avoid this issue for a while. JW's have been indoctrinated to believe there is one "true" group that we have to belong to. Once they wake up to the crap the Watchtower has been serving them they want to run out and find some other group to spoon feed them truth. Don't encourage that line of thinking. If he believes that Jehovah has always had an organization, ask him to identify which organization Jehovah was using before Charles Russell started his little book club.

MrFreeze

Your agenda? Getting him out of the cult.

ABibleStudent

Hi NeverKnew, Did he watch the video on youtube of Raymond Franz in Prague? I liked what Raymond Franz said in that video. I especially liked that he said that the WTBTS has been saying that Jesus is the Mediator between God and man, but the WTBTS is the channel to Jesus Christ for the last 30 odd years.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c6I0fjiYNU

How about an agenda for him to think for himself instead of blindly following the GB? Has he watched any of Steve Hassan's videos?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Londo111

Congrats! Encourge him to keep on researching and reading.

yourmomma

is he waking up? no. he is already awake. good job.

NeverKnew

Checklisting

Jwfacts recommendation: Check. Specifically sent him to http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/questionable-watchtower-doctrine.php

Agenda response: Wish I had thought of that one.... :( I will get another chance I'm sure.

Franz Videos: I'm not sure which one he saw.

After thinking about all that I've learned, I think I've categorized the evils of the WT into a few broad categories:

1. Evolution of the WTS (Spiritualality of presidents such as Rutherford *ahem*, financial rewards, trading sales and profits for tax exemption, etc)

2. Evolution and re-evolution of WTS doctrines even misusing (misquoting) others work to make points that serve the WT's goals (Sodom & Gomorrah, modifications of terms such as generation, 1914, 607, trinity, etc)

3. Eisegesical approach to the Bible (how DOES someone have the nerve to do this except for a blatant disregard for a higher authority? AND THEN USE THAT AUTHORITY'S NAME TO OBTAIN POWER AND MONEY??? wow. )

4. The extrication of humans from their social and familial foundations in the name of God for the preservation of an organization (evil beyond compare)

He's learning point 1, getting hints of point 2 and realizing the horror of point 4. Maybe point 3 will come eventually.

Why is point 3 important? THIS point seems to deliver many into two very different directions - either atheism or Christ.

I gotta wait. No other choice. :(

Anony - back and forth... this challenge seems to take years to deal with for it appears to affect the conscious AND the unconscious mind (dreams). I'm hearing layers of thought-stopping fear after fear from him. Right now, he says he's grateful that he's no longer walking in total ignorance. I know that there will be days that he will wish he had been offered the blue pill.

I hate this cult.

Ding

I don't recommend inviting a JW to a church right away... too big a hurdle... too many fears that you're trying to suck him into Satan's organization.

Just because a JW wakes up to negatives about the organization doesn't mean that he is ready to reject the doctrines.

I would encourage him to read Galatians and Romans apart from any WT literature so he can begin to see that the Bible's message is far different from the WT spin.

That is a major step for a JW -- no more "faithful and discreet slave" to tell him how to interpret the Bible...

ABibleStudent

Hi NeverKnew, You seem very serious about your BF to anticipate several years of agony ahead and still want to be with him. Have you thought of how professional counseling could reduce your agony? If you are planning to marry him, have you thought about going to a professional counselor before you get married? Seeing a counselor before marriage is a good idea whether your BF is a member of a dangerous cult or not. Spending acouple of hundred dollars now is an excellant investment for greater peace of mind before getting married and divorcing later.

If you go to Steve Hassan's website (www.freedomofmind.com), you may be able to locate a cult exit councilor near you or talk to Steve Hassan or one of his coaches for better ideas to reduce your agony. Bottom line is don't get married to your BF until he can say that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult with conviction and explain why he feels that way.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Is he waking up?

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