Is he waking up? (page 2)

NeverKnew

Ding, I gave him a copy of CoC which he's reading now. I then told him about Hassan's CCMC at the library. He responded by saying that the book sounds like something worth buying! I may be overwhelming him. Could you rank these in order of importance? I do realize that it'd be your opinion from your frame of reference, but I'll take it!

Crisis of Conscience

Combatting Cult Mind Control

Galations

Romans

...and any other publication you can think of.

The cool thing is that I have no rooted affiliation with any of the denomination so he knows I'm not selling another denomination. I'm not even pushing the subject. With his statement of not knowing how it is in church, I'm just offering him a chance to see something different with me. I'll take your advice and refrain from making the offer again.

NeverKnew

Yourmomma: Ya think? YESSSSSSSSS!

Robert: I'm not making any marital commitments UNTIL he re-roots. Right now, he's devastated. And no, it's not the time to make a life decision. And yes, I realize that could take months/years. I've known him since 1997 when our lives were much more complicated. It's okay. I'm okay. :)

Phizzy

I think he is waking up, its the stage where you are awake but struggling with what day it is, and what is reality and what is the dream you just had, bleary eyed and not yet ready to face the day.

I found myself feeling like that when I first left, I suddenly discovered what a HUGE amount there was to research, and yet I said to myself, there only has to be one thing which is absolutely wrong, and JW's are not "The Truth".

You need to find that one thing for him perhaps, using JWfacts, then he can relax, walk away , and research more later if he wants.

But walk away he must, or he will stay "bleary eyed" and not "face the day" i.e reality.

Ding

Since he's already reading CoC, I think he should keep on with that.

Ray talks quite a bit in there about Galatians and Romans, so he can read them along with CoC.

If he only wants to read one book at a time, I would have him read CoC, then

Galatians

Romans

Captives of a Concept (Don Cameron)

Jehovah of the Watchtower (Walter Martin)

In Search of Christian Freedom (Ray Franz)

Combatting Cult Mind Control (Steve Hassan)

As you said, that's just my opinion. If he minds it more meaningful to switch things around, that's fine.

Also, if he still has fears that the WT may be the truth after all, the 1918 WT book The Finished Mystery and the 1920 WT booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die would be very good because they are utter nonsense, even by current WT standards. Yet they were supposedly "the truth" when published.

NeverKnew

I think he is waking up, its the stage where you are awake but struggling with what day it is, and what is reality and what is the dream you just had, bleary eyed and not yet ready to face the day.

I think you're nailing it. We were sitting at the bottom of some steps as he was expressing his confusion. It killed me when he said, "*Neverknew*, you see those steps? What if I told you they weren't real???" Another statement made, "*Neverknew, I am seeing truth that makes sense. I should be rewarded or congratulated for bringing this to my brothers and sisters but instead I'll be seen as an anti-christ? You really don't know what I'm feeling... This hurts so badly."

His memory is remarkable. He's now quoting page numbers and quotes from The Finished Mystery and Millions now Living. He also seems to have accepted the fact that the Proclaimer's Book is a whitewashed version of the history.

Captain Obvious

NeverKnew,

PLEASE be gentle with him, let him go a this own speed. He has definitely woken up... This time is SO painful. You can help, be supportive and be a hearing ear. You don't need to help him along at all. He has a LOT of reading to do, and a lot of thinking to do.

I'm not really an emotional guy.. And the only 2 times my wife ever saw me cry, was within 2 weeks of my waking up. The hurt, anger and confusion can last quite a while. Then it just turns to anger, then acceptance. Expect the normal stages of the grief process.

Congratulations!

If you can, in conversation sometime try and draw out of him what specifically started him thinking, and what made him finally start looking into it.

Balaamsass

If he is reading Ray's book, that should be enough along with JW.Facts.

1. Get him AWAY from the cult to the great big happy world and NORMAL PEOPLE. Concerts, events, day trips, art gallerys, college classes, Cooking classes, fund raisers for sick kids....NORMAL non-cult people. HAVE FUN!!!

A little BIBLE reading ..perhaps about Jesus berating the religious leaders of his day is OK..he will see the similarities to JWs once he is away a couple of weeks.

Congrats!!!!

new22day

Wow NeverKnew. You have shown so much patience, perserverence and love to him thoughout what must have been a tiring process. I'm so happy to hear it's paying off. And so happy he may be on his way out of the cult. As others have said it must be a very difficult time for him. Hope he is OK. All the best to you both. Keep us updated.

extractor

WOW!

This is great news. Congrats. Go slow. You probably already know this but never say, indicate, or hint at anything that sounds like, "I told you so!" Something more like, "I'm really sorry the Organization wasn't what you hoped or wanted it to be." or "It's not your fault, they have deceived millions & it's THEIR fault."

NeverKnew

Capt. and others who are interested:

I can tell you what I know about his eyelids opening, but please realize, this is only what I've been told. There may be other things I do not know. Also, realize that many of your stories reveal a partial awakening and then a return so I'm being careful not to be too optimistic.

I believe that these elements led to the opening of Pandora's box:

Vaccinations and organ transplants being equated to cannibalism. The number of lives possibly lost really hurt him. The notion of having to promote something that may result in a life lost as a MS or elder and then having to explain the change to the families he counseled troubled him. While I have tried, the connection to the blood doctrine hasn't hit his radar so I've dropped it.

The answers to questions he's asked given by various elders have no substance and the responses seem to be ending in what he's perceiving as warnings to stop questioning and yes, he's noticed the touch of hostility thrown in. He's not sure if they are covering up ignorance ....or knowledge. Either way, not good. Elders who are lurking - have you ever heard the phrase, "Don't raise your voice, improve your argument?" Yeah... maybe YOU should get real serious about learning why the WT hasn't provided YOU with substantive answers. There is one answer that was so freaking absurd *sigh* I haven't posted it because I've never seen it on here or anywhere else and it may "out" him. Sorry, I digress...

On 1914, I'm not sure where he is on the deconstruction. The only element I know he's offended by is that the date was originally a prediction of Armageddon. I have to imagine that the WTS's whitewashed coverups of this reality (like page 215 of the Bible Teach book) may possibly be contributing to his concerns.

The availability of historical information to non-JWs is huge. After some of our conversations, he started to realize that he was disadvantaged. Now, the thought of approaching a householder who may do some research in between visits is a huge concern.

Now, I'm talking to a man who is starting to realize the ramifications of his own organization-imposed ignorance and it's really hurting him. He seems dazed.

Should I be encouraging him to stay in for now? It doesn't appear that he knows anything about or understands "fading." I've told him that given everything I've read, this is what he needs to do but, once again, he can't hear me. He keeps telling me that after six months of inactivity, he'll either be df'd or mandatorily da'd. I don't know how to explain fading. :(

Would fading even be possible with relatives who are elders?

Is he waking up?

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