Noah the preacher

TheListener

This whole Noah was a preacher of the last days things has me really irked. I just don't see Noah as a preacher, in the sense the society is using it, supported by the Bible.

Here are my thoughts, yes, they're not scholarly, but they represent how I feel. Feel free to comment in agreement or disagreement or possible sharing some more scholarly information.

Genesis 6: 13, 18 and 7:1 clearly show that Jehovah had already chosen Noah and his family. There was no commission to preach because there was no one else that Jehovah planned on saving.

The amount of humans alive before the flood. If the flood happened in 2350BC then that means there was a couple thousand years of individuals having kids. Based on the few families shown in the Bible each one had many many children. The only WT quote I could locate about the population size of the pre-flood world said something like there was likely less people then than now. Well, that's just great! There about 6 billion people now. Even if there were only 1 or 2 million pre-flood people, which does seem rather low, Noah couldn't have possible reached them all, nor would they all had seen his ark project.

2 Peter 2:5 - calls Noah a preacher of righteousness. How did he preach?

Hebrews 11:7 tells us that by his faith he condemned an ancient world. There you have it. He made known his faith in God by following instructions. Not by going to his neighbors homes and trying to convince them to join him.

Matt. 24:36-42 - 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.

I just get the feeling that those preflood individuals did not even know what was going on. They weren't preached to but found unrepentant. God judged them and found them deficient. They were living their normal lives and all of a sudden the flood came.

Anyway comments are welcome.

TheListener

Also, in Matt. 24:39 where the NWT says "took no note" I think that is misleading. It may be an accurate translating of the word Ginosko (#1097) but it's definitely lends itself to the WTS viewpoint that Noah was preaching and that the populace didn't listen. Here is how the NAS translates this word each time is is used:

ascertaining 1, aware 7, certainty 1, come to know 1, comprehend 1, felt 1, find 3, found 2, kept...a virgin* 1, knew 13, know 104, know how 1, knowing 3, known 25, knows 14, learn 1, learned 1, perceived 1, perceiving 2, put 1, realize 3, recognize 7, recognized 1, recognizing 1, sure 4, take notice 1, unaware* 2, understand 11, understood 6, virgin* 1

It appears that by not taking note they were really just unaware or uninformed or didn't perceive what was happening around them. NOT DELIBERATELY DISSIN' NOAH.

Gopher

Of course, this assumes a flood even happened. The idea of such a thing is unscientific -- but that has been extensively detailed on this board and other sites.

Anyhow, the Watchtower has erected a whole set of doctrines around the Noachian flood account. The main ones are that the majority of mankind ignored Noah's "preaching", just like the majority of mankind ignore their proclamation of impending doom for all non-Witnesses. Also the fact that Noah "did just so" as told by Jehovah (according to the Genesis account), which means that all JW's must "do just so" according to what Jehovah's mouthpiece, their Faithful and Discreet Slave, tells them.

People can use the Bible to prove almost anything they want. The Watchtower Society uses it to try to prove their own importance.

startingover

eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage

I remember as a believer thinking this meant they were eating and drinking in excess, but that is not what it says. And was there something wrong with marriage. I guess what it indicates is that people were living normal lives.

Of course it never happened so who cares.

undercover

The reference to Matthew 24:39 where it says in the NWT "...they took no note" is interesting compared to the Interlinier(sic) Greek Scriptures(the purple book). I don't have it handy but I think it said, that "...they did not know".

Now, if Noah had been preaching, they would have known but chose to ignore it. The WTS is more than just a little sneaky when they translate it "...took no note" because that lends itself to mean that the people possibly knew or were told but refused to take action.

Nowhere in the flood/Noah account is it mentioned that Noah preached to his contemporaries. Just because some Christian zealot called Noah "a preacher of righteousness" thousands of years later doesn't mean he actually preached in the manner that the WTS would have us believe.

xjwms

TheListener

I agree with you, .. and he did not have an organazation.

Comments like sundays wt about the usual life, get to me as well.

Narkissos

On the other hand, the tradition that Noah did preach seems to have been widespread in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, cf. 1 Clement 7:

These things, beloved, we write to you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling in the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. So let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look steadfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all who would be converted to Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites; but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.

See also the references from Josephus and the Talmud in http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67328/1.ashx

TheListener

Interesting Narkissos. By the way, I really dislike it when you disagree with me or make me think through my position on things (double smilies means I am really really just kidding).

All I an say in reply is that the references you provided, while showing interesting information, and possibly even correct information, are not inspired. Ha Ha Ha - not inspired. That means I can summarily dismiss them as worthless and meaningless. No witness can stand on uninspired writings to prove Noah was an actual preacher as the society claims. Suckers!

Ok I'm done. Excuse me while I straighten my jacket and tie and climb down from my high horse.

Seriously, that is probably where Peter got his idea that Noah preached. Before researching the Bible more I never realized that the 1st century writers would have been influenced by the teachings that they received in the synagogue. Ignorant I know, but I think most witnesses don't even consider that. I always figured the apostles (and others) just wrote down what God wanted transmitted, but in their own words.

Still, for the WTS to portray it so matter of factly and to use it as a cattle prod for dubs in wrong.

peacefulpete

1 Peter was written by someone with sophisticated mastery of Greek and familiar with Pauline Christianity. IF there ever was an historical 'Peter' (rather than literary creation) he did not write the books with his name on them.

Midget-Sasquatch

While it doesn't explicitly mention preaching, the Targum of Pseudo-Jonathan can allow for it since it has Yahweh saying he'll stave off the flood if people convert:

For, behold, I give you space of seven days; if they will be converted, it shall be forgiven them; but if they will not be converted, after a time of days yet seven, I will cause rain to come down upon the earth forty days and forty nights, and will destroy all bodies of man and of beast upon the earth. And Noah did acccording to all that the Lord had commanded him.

Noah the preacher

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