Grace: What is it?.

by Lady Lee 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    This may seem like an odd topic for me to handle but I have had this rolling around in me for a long time.

    I'm sure many of us recall the oft repeated quote from JWs that "faith without works is dead" The concept of grace is unknown to them. So what is it?

    One website gives one aspect of it as

    Grace is a beautiful word, truly a great Bible truth is resident in this word. In fact, it is a word and concept without which man's salvation would be impossible. Grace is derived from the Greek charis. Thayer comments thus on charis: "…the New Testament writers used charis pre-eminently of that kindness by which God bestows favors even upon the ill-deserving, and grants to sinners the pardon of their offences, and bids them accept of eternal salvation through Christ…" (Greek-English Lexicon, pg. 666)....

    Grace versus merit. The scriptures reveal that not only are grace and merit not coexistent, they are mutually excluding. Salvation cannot simultaneously be by grace and works (merit), Paul argues (Rom. 11: 6). If man could merit his salvation, God's grace would not be requisite (Rom. 4: 1 ff., Eph. 2: 8-18). However, the Bible truth that grace and merit are incompatible does not mean man is passive in the matter of enjoying God's grace (the scriptures, as seen, do not teach universal salvation - such would inevitably be the case if man were passive and God active because God is not willing that any perish, 2 Pet. 3: 9). "For by grace are ye saved through faith," explained Paul, "and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God…" (Eph. 2: 8). Grace is God's part, faith is man's responsibility. However, faith or belief itself is a work (Jn. 6: 29). Faith is not meritorious but a "work of God." Faith, saving faith, is always active and obedient (Jas. 2: 19-26).

    http://www.bibletruths.net/Great%20Truths/GT09.htm

    "Grace is... kindness by which God bestows favors even upon the ill-deserving"

    So Grace is the kindness shown even when it is not deserved. That sounds unconditional to me. I'm a parent. I've had my kids scream and yell that they hate me. Teens. I think they all do it. The more you enforce the rules the more they scream. And even when we were angry with each other that didn't mean I stopped loving them or caring for them. I still washed their clothes and made their meals. I still did all those mother things regardless of the anger.

    Regardless of what choices my daughters have made in their lives I still love them and if they asked I would be there. I haven't always approved or liked their choices but the love addresses who they are as people not what they do.

    Salvation cannot simultaneously be by grace and works (merit). This whole idea of unconditional love and acceptance of a person is foreign to the WTS and JWs. They assert that it is only by works (meetings, service, prayer, and following hundreds of doctrinal changes at the drop of a hat). For them it is about what others see you do that makes you approved by God. It just goes so against what the concept of God's Grace is.

    Now if we as humans can love our children unconditionally then why on earth wouldn't a God who has the qualities of love, justice, power, and wisdom be incapable of doing the same? In fact there is no way we could believe that He would do less than provide uncondional grace to those who are undeserving.

  • tall penguin
    tall penguin

    It's funny...I've been thinking about this a lot lately too. I got to thinking yesterday how strange it seems that at the end of this life, the Sovereign of the Universe is going to do a run-down of all the mistakes I made and then summarily destroy me if those mistakes surpass the good deeds I did. What happened to "not keeping account of the injury"?!
    I was also thinking about unconditional love. I am not a parent yet. But I work with children. And I can't imagine any loving parent sitting down their child and going over a list of errors versus a list of good acts and judging whether the child will be blessed or punished over this summation. Seems absolutely ludicrous to me.
    And since we're supposedly made "in God's image" I can't imagine the God of the universe being less loving and kind than the average human parent. Just simple logic to me.
    An elder once summed up the society's position on grace when he said, "There's no unconditional love in the organization." And he seemed rather proud of that position. Sad, so very sad.
    tall penguin

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    The problem is that the protest against the Pauline connection of "grace" and "faith" is "scriptural" too (obviously so in the Epistle of James, also in the Gospels sayings of Matthew and Luke). Of course the "works" which are opposed to it are nothing like JW-like "works" -- instead love and mercy.

    This might seem slightly off-topic, but I have been pondering on the connection between the two meanings of the word "grace": (1) "grace" as "undeserved kindness" as the NWT has it, which follows on Paul's line; (2) "grace" as beauty, charm, appeal. The two seem to be related in the Biblical phrase "to find grace in the eyes of somebody". And the common denominator is unfairness: beauty (even moral beauty) is unfair just as "unconditional love" is unfair. You just can't afford to be both ill-deserving and ugly, although this may happen (and family examples might be brought up here too).

    It's quite interesting that one of the main topics in the anti-Pauline epistle of James is equality of treatment vs. favoritism.

    On the other hand, the idea that grace # 1 and grace # 2 respond to each other is attractive. In the Pauline line that might mean the grace of God will give you grace (at least moral grace); in the Matthew-James way it might mean that by becoming gracious you will open yourself to the grace of God:

    Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
    love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
    judgment will be without mercy to anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
    The chicken and the egg?
  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I suppose it would be circular (in a good way)

    Like love - the more you give the more you get back

    Last year before my daughter had her baby boy, my 10 yr old grandaughter was worried that her mom would love the baby more than her. We had this serious talk about love not being limited. There is always more to go around and the more you give the more you get back.

    Well this year my daughter had another baby (the last she says) and I had another little talk about this idea she had of limited love. She adores her little brother. She now realizes that love just grows.

    Now love and grace aren't the same thing but the principle should apply. Where does it start or end? Does it really matter?

  • Scully
    Scully

    The whole idea of undeserved kindness seems a bit distasteful to me. To be constantly told for the better part of a quarter century that nothing I do (works) is going to put me in God's favor, yet I still must do an entire laundry list of things in order to have any hope of ever having God's favor, just does not sit well with me. The way the WTS talks about it, we are all just so hopelessly worthless in God's eyes that we can't possibly entertain any hope of salvation. At the same time we must trudge away on the hamster wheel of JW life and beat our heads against a brick wall constantly for our failings, otherwise we may just as well kill ourselves and get it over with.

    No wonder so many JWs are on antidepressants.

    Grace - the way it has been explained to me - is more of a you-are-good-enough-for-God mentality. That God accepts people as they are, flaws and all, regardless of their works. The Bible talks about coming to God through accepting Christ Jesus as being the only basis for salvation. In other words, if you accept God/Jesus, then they accept you.

    I always had a problem with the idea that nothing I did was ever good enough for me to have God's favor. I am not malicious; I am not mean or spiteful; I don't do things to people that I wouldn't want to have done to me or my children; I go out of my way to be courteous, helpful, and kind to people. Why would I not be good enough for God, if I am not a destructive, evil, bad person?

    I guess growing up in an environment of JW emotional blackmail made me see the silliness of the whole idea.

    My feelings today are that if I'm not good enough for God, then God is not good enough for me. I can be good without God. I don't need the promise of a "reward" or the threat of eternal damnation to compel me to be a good person. God has nothing to do with my desire to be a good person. I do it for myself.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Lee,

    You may be interested in this post of Mrs Ozzie's back in July 2001:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/7913/95022/post.ashx#95022

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • Evanescence
    Evanescence

    Well I know some people would say that sin is "falling from grace"

    I'm sure many of us recall the oft repeated quote from JWs that "faith without works is dead" The concept of grace is unknown to them. So what is it?

    "faith without works is dead" thats not exactly right, a better phase would be that evil triumphs when good people do nothing!

    Evanescence

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    wow ozzie. If you/she don't mind I will bring that post over here

    From Mrs. ozzie I'm here at last! I'm the wife of ozziepost. That ozzie of mine spends too much time at your place. He always tells me what's happening and shows me interesting threads. Sometimes I give him some ideas!

    Maximus, this is a very good topic to talk about but I was surprised that Ozzie didn't tell you about the book that meant a lot to me on our road to freedom.

    It is a wonderful book called What's So Amazing about Grace by Phillip Yancey (Harper Collins Zondervan)

    It is written in an easy to read style and is full of great stories teaching the meaning of grace (or as we know it, "undeserved kindness"). It is such a healing to read it as it shows how hurting people (or people who have been made to feel they are wicked) are more likely to see Jesus as a refuge. The down and outs who flocked to Jesus when he was on earth felt Jesus's compassion. The prostitute was forgiven even though her sins were many "because she loved much, but he who is forgiven little, loves little." It looks at grace, we speak about it, but do we really understand it, do we really believe in it.. and do we show it in our own lives?

    It has great quotes, such as,
    He who cannot forgive another, breaks the bridge over which he must pass himself.- George Herbert

    Man is born broken. He lives by mending. The grace of God is glue. Eugene O'Neill.

    This book was the beginning of my mending, it helped me to see things in a completely different way from the Borg. To see that there is a loving way to cope with our trials. God's grace is so needed by us all. We are all going to make mistakes as we are all imperfect, but the way we handle these situations can destroy us or those we love.

    There's a great chapter entitled "Grace Avoidance" that discusses legalism. He writes: "Jesus proclaimed unmistakably that God's law is so perfect and absolute that no one can achieve righteousness. Yet God's grace is so great that we do not have to. By striving to prove how much they deserve God's love, legalists miss the whole point of the gospel, that it is a gift from God to people who don't deserve it. The solution to sin is not to impose an ever-stricter code of behavior. It is to know God."

    I really recommend this book to everyone. I am sure many sisters would really find it encouraging and helpful. Much of what is wrong about the Borg is the lack of grace. The failure to understand, receive and live out God's unconditional grace and forgiveness. Also the failure to give out unconditional grace, forgiveness and unconditional love to brothers and sisters who have made mistakes. The books and magazines say they do, but in practice they don't. The good news of the gospel of grace has not penetrated the elders' emotions.

    I think that's enough from me now and I hope you will get as much out of this book as I did when I read it two years or so ago.

    Bye,

    Mrs Ozzie

    There is nothing we can do to make God love us more.
    There is nothing we can do to make God love us less.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Grace is a pleasing quality

    'Unconditional love' is a ridiculous expression - can love be conditional ?
    Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    And "undeserved kindness" ? Either it's kindness or not, either it's love or not - AND it's either a trade or not.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    Well the watchtower calls it" Undeserved Kindness" That was a name I hated until I came out the WT Now I love it. Dont know the real meaning but I know I got it when I asked Christ to be my Lord & Savior...( Yes Phillip Yancey book is EXcellent Mrs ozzie....

    At the convention this weekend a couple are now over there ( they were at the convention)They have a ministry to Ex JWs --- web site may not be up yet as they have just gone. but Mrs Ozzie it is www.mtcc.org.au---- Called Mount Tamborine Centre Victoria Point QLD

    Sorry to steal this thread Lee. But you know when I post no one reads.....DAH!!!

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