The EVERLASTING Lie

by thinker 25 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    There is only one reference of the word "paradise" in the OT of the NWT:

    Song of Solomon 4:13 Your skin is a paradise of pomegranates, with the choicest fruits, henna plants along with spikenard plants;

    There are many references in the footnotes. It is odd that a word that is used 18 times in the entire NWT, including introduction, footnotes, and indices, should be the basis for so much text in books produced by the WTS. If this was a primary teaching it would have gotten much more copy in the texts.

    For instance, "kingdom" has 366 hits in the NWT. "Holy Spirit" has 106. "spirit" has 823, which would include all references to "holy spirit" as well.

    Just counting what is in a translated verse, the NWT uses the word "paradise" four times. On one of those occasions, paradise is connect directly to the "third heaven." Paul was referring to what in Jewish tradition is "Highest Heaven."

    Highest Heaven alt (she-may ha-shah-MA-yeem) n. Highest Heaven. The third heaven.
    (source: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/Hebrew_Glossary_-_H/hebrew_glossary_-_h.html)

    I'm sure either Narkissos or Leolaia can smack me upside the head if my understanding of this is wrong. Feel free, you two. It is better for it to be right than for my ego to remain unbruised.

    AuldSoul

  • thinker
    thinker

    Narkissos

    Btw,

    if "eternal/everlasting" in the Bible doesn't mean "eternal," how can this help in making a difference between "heaven" and "earth"? Why would "eternal/everlasting life" in heaven mean anything more than "to an age"?

    As the WT points out, those in heaven are called immortal:

    " The Greek word translated "immortality" (athanasia) is formed from the negative a and from thanatos, meaning "death." Immortality thus has the basic sense of ‘without death,’ or deathlessness."

    thinker

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    AuldSoul,

    Hebrew pardes (a Persian loanword, just as Greek paradeisos) which occurs in Song of Solomon 4:13 also occurs in Nehemiah 2:8 (the "garden," "park," "orchard" of the king) and Qoheleth (Ecclesiastes) 2:5, together with gan "garden" ("gardens and parks"). But in the LXX paradeisos occurs 45 times, starting with Genesis 2:8ff, as a translation of Hebrew gan. In the OT it is hardly a theologically loaded word as the above references (where paradeisos translates pardes) clearly show.

    On the "third heaven," this has been discussed many times, but it is a clear reference to the Jewish apocalyptic world representation which used to distinguish a number (3, 5, 7, 10 according to the texts) of successive "heavens".

    Thinker,

    Athanasia occurs only in 1 Corinthians 15:53f (referring to resurrected believers) and 1 Timothy 6:16 (referring to God). What about all the texts which use aiôn or aiônios to describe the future life of believers or the life of God? In such cases, by your synthetical approach, those words do mean "eternal/everlasting," don't they? In what specific cases, then, do you think those words mean something else? Can this supposed "other meaning" be gathered from the context?

  • thinker
    thinker
    "Athanasia occurs only in 1 Corinthians 15:53f (referring to resurrected believers)"

    The WT applies this verse to the anointed as shown by this article (note also that perfect humans can die):

    Questions

    From Readers

    What

    is the difference between immortality and everlasting life?

    Endless life will be enjoyed both by anointed ones receiving spirit life in heaven and by humans whom God declares righteous for life on the Paradise earth. So if you think about the outcome, immortality in heaven and everlasting life on earth result in basically the same thing-living forever. There are, though, some comments about immortality that can be made.

    The Greek word translated "immortality" (athanasia) is formed from the negative a and from thanatos, meaning "death." Immortality thus has the basic sense of ‘without death,’ or deathlessness. Understandably, Jehovah is the absolute source of all life and is immortal. (Psalm 36:9; 90:1, 2) This is confirmed by the fact that his glorified Son, who now "is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being," is described as "the King of those [men] who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality." (Hebrews 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16) No creature can take Jesus’ life as an immortal, which makes him different from humans or spirits that can die. Further, we read: "Now that [Christ] has been raised up from the dead, [he] dies no more; death is master over him no more."-Romans 6:9.

    Though immortality is, in a sense, everlasting life, immortality apparently implies more than that its possessor will live forever. It seems to indicate a particular quality of life, and it is linked with incorruption. The Bible says about spirit-anointed Christians who receive the heavenly reward: "This which is corruptible [in its human body] must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’"-1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

    Still, the Bible does not provide much detail about the quality of life termed immortality. We do know that mortal humans-even perfect humans having the prospect of endless life on earth-must eat and drink to maintain life, or they die and their bodies experience corruption. (Genesis 2:9, 15, 16) No doubt immortality involves a quality of life that does not need to be sustained like that. Thus it could be said that all who become immortal are not subject to death or that ‘death is master over them no more.’ That would harmonize, too, with their receiving incorruptibility, indicating that their spirit body or organism is inherently beyond decay, ruin or corruption. (Compare 2 Corinthians 5:1; Revelation 20:6.) In these ways a difference might be seen between immortality and everlasting human life.

    Jehovah God is the perfect Judge who rewards anointed ones with immortality. When he in his boundless wisdom and insight determines such ones to be completely tested and unquestionably qualified for immortality, we can trust that they will forever be faithful. All whom Jehovah judges worthy of endless life, whether as immortal spirits or as perfect humans, will be able to worship him forever. Thus, in the final analysis, both everlasting human life and immortality in heaven result in endless life.-John 17:3.

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    "What about all the texts which use aiôn or aiônios to describe the future life of believers or the life of God? In such cases, by your synthetical approach, those words do mean "eternal/everlasting," don't they?"

    If you've read the links I provided you know that when God is the subject then aion is assumed to be a never-ending age. As for us mere humans aion would mean a long, long indefinite time, but not forever. If ohlam had meant everlasting to the jews they could have translated it as aidios (which clearly means everlasting) in the septuaguint. Instead they chose aionios which means age-lasting.

    thinker

  • trevor
    trevor

    Hearts go astray

    Leaving hurt when they go

    You went away just when I needed you so

    Finding your way

    You come back on to me

    I'm gonna stay lying to you endlessly

    Open up your eyes

    Then you realize

    Here I stand with my

    Everlasting lies

    Need you by my side

    There's no need to hide

    Never be denied

    Everlasting lies

    From the very start

    Open up your heart

    Be a lasting part of

    Everlasting lies

    You are my everlasting

    You are my everlasting lies

    Look in my eyes

    See my lies burning strong

    No more goodbyes

    In your arms I belong

    Our time has come

    All my dreams have come true

    Two hearts as one

    Lying to me lying to you.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    when God is the subject then aion is assumed to be a never-ending age. As for us mere humans aion would mean a long, long indefinite time, but not forever. If ohlam had meant everlasting to the jews they could have translated it as aidios (which clearly means everlasting) in the septuaguint. Instead they chose aionios which means age-lasting.

    Imo: circular reasoning; confusion of etymology with semantics; confusion of theology and lexicology.

    Already in the Orphic Hymns or Plato aiônios can mean "eternal" as a synonym of aidios. See the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. I, p. 197ff (especially p. 208f on aiônios).

    When the Johannine Jesus says: "Anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has zoèn aiônion, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life (ek tou thanatou eis ten zoèn)," do you seriously believe than by zoè aiônios he means a long life ending with death?

    If not, would you answer my further questions:

    In what specific cases, then, do you think those words mean something else? Can this supposed "other meaning" be gathered from the context?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit