Does Jehovah exist without Jesus? (page 2)

daystar

It's the old "the bible is true because the bible says so" classic. People like defd just cannot comprehend why that logic is ludicrous.

It is taken on faith alone and that is valued ever so highly. But they never really question what that really means. It bascially means that you don't really have any real reason to believe it's true, but because you want so strongly to believe it's true, you'll just believe it regardless. So then begins the job of using circular logic to prove it to yourself and fake yourself into believing it.

This sort of thing is very useful to Chaos Magicians.

Hellrider

Michelle:

was Jesus just tagged on as a reason to create Christianity. Was Jesus just a revolutionary upset about the injustices in the Jewish system. Jehovah never really declared his "son" would be the Mesiah. I seriously doubt the new testament and anything in it

If you believe that, then you should convert to Judaism. My problem is the opposite. I have a much more problematic view on the OT than the NT. The God of the OT is a vindictive, jealous, unethical monster. The God of the NT is first and foremost LOVE.

I`m not surprised that Defd said what he said. JWs couldn`t care less about Jesus, in their view, the true God is the God of the OT, the God of jealousy and revenge. I have for many years just viewed JW-ism as a distorted sort of Judaism, judaism "with a twist".

forsharry

"I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing."

"Religion is a magical device for turning unanswerable questions into unquestionable answers"

"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide.

"These are my opinions. If they were the Biblical truth, your bushes would be burning."

AuldSoul

In my opinion? No more than water exists without hydrogen.

AuldSoul

RevFrank

I'll try to make this simple.In greek the word theos means God, as in reference to John 1:1....it was John who referenced the theos as Jesus.

As for the word Jehovah, it came from a 15th century monk and a catholic monk. Since the Watchtower denies the catholic church as truth, how can they use Jehovah as reference to God when they denie the Vatican? They can't, because the phrase, "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Nor can they, watchtower, say they can pick and choose what they want and reject other information.

AS in Exodus 3:14 the "IAM' God told Moses....not God the Father, but just plainly God. As in reference to John 8:58..where Christ said.."IAM." Again Christ never said He was God the Father nor God the Son....but it meant...GOD.

"The jews answered Him saying, 'For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, and because You being a man make yourself God."(John 10:33)

Look at it from a jew's point of view. Jesus was making Himself as God...Yet Jesus never rebuked their statement.

Yet all thoughout scripture no one has never seen the Father..yet Adam saw God.....Moses saw a part of God....Jacob said That he saw God...I believe that they saw the Son of God. And Jesus aolways said no man has ever seen the Father, but Him.

From the very beginning of the Bible..the first two verses idenifies the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Born-again-christian can testify the Father, son, and Holy Spirit.....Baptists can testify this also....So can the catholic church....most of the christian churches can testify to these things. Why? FAITH in knowing...

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."(HEB11:1)

"one Lord, one faith, one baptism."(Eph 4:5)

"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, 'the just shall live by faith,' God's wrath on unrighteousness." (Romans 1:17)

"to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me."(Acts 26:18)

Ok,,it wasn't that simple. but the example is having Faith in what we see and teach. And by faith alone we walk among the world...................

PEACE

IP_SEC

I doubt either exist.

If Joehobba exists, well then I thinks he is a pitiful excuse for a maggot infested, eaten twice then puked up, heaping pile of dog crap much less god of the universe.

Jebus? Well I'm down with Jebus but he needs to look at getting a new daddy.

thinker

Hi Michelle,

When we touch the issue of God having a son, I wonder why?
We reproduce I think to leave a sort of legacy. So when we no longer exist we have something of ours to live on. Why would God need to have a son? If he has a son and we are created in his image (God's) does God have a wife or a female counterpart?

God used to have a wife, her name was Ashera. They jews dumped her for an all-male god and a male dominated religion. Christianity followed suit with male domination in their religion. This male god reproduced without the help of any female and had a son (another male, of course). It probably has something to do with males envying the fact that only females can produce new life. Personally I think the goddess based religions sounded a lot more fun.

Ever wonder what would have happened if Jesus had been a girl?

thinker

Frogleg

You wanted opinions, so I didn't bother to read the replies you've already gotten. Your question is loaded. "No", or "yes" is a wrong answer. Much like asking if I am still beating my wife. God is. Unfortunately, it's as simple as that. What he is, does, was, will be, may be, etc. is perfectly useless because there isn't just a whole hell of a lot we can do about it. Why not ask, "Should 9 follow 8?" To me, the point isn't who or what God is, because that cannot change, but who or what we are. We can actually do something (however minor) about that, including telling the JW next to you to "Suck my ..." Imagine this: gravity, and the other natual forces, are not constant throughout the universe. In fact, like waves across a large body of water, the elemental forces increase and decrease in density, or strength. However, these areas of density change are light years across. Now, 6000 (or so) years ago our portion of the galaxy moved into a region of the universe where electrical resistance "increased" by, oh say, 10%. And now, in this 21st century, we are starting to move into an area where "natural" electrical resistance is returning to it's previous value: times 1.1. What is this going to do things? Well, primarily, the intelligence among mammals (and other creatures using electricity as the basis for nervous system communication) will increase unbelievably. To put it in perspective, chimpanzees will be reading comic books. To those born from now until then, it will be no big deal. But what about the rest of us? What will be left of a 20th century human race confronted with the thoughts that will suddenly be upon them? What happens when the old lies become a child's explanation that the cookie jar is broken beacuse they were doing nothing?

peacefulpete

The success of Christianity is in a large part because the Jesus character was anchored in history eclipsed the vaporous gods of Judaism and competing Mystery cults. Whether the "Christ" of earliest Christianity was understood as an earthy human or was a developement that evolved through misinterpretaion and layers of myth is another question. The Yahweh character had started out anthropomorphic and easy to comprehend. He got mad, he held grudges, he appears to have even had a wife (as someone pointed out), he visited his friends on earth, he drank wine, and he could make people rich if he wanted. As the sophistication of the cult increased under the influence of Persian and Greek cult the character Yahweh became less and less humanlike and as a result less approachable. The time was right for Christianity with it's human Savior hero that felt pain, drank wine and was everything Yahweh used to be. Timing is everything in politics and religion.

Does Jehovah exist without Jesus?

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