by Narkissos 19 Replies latest jw friends
The Hindu concept of samsara, if I understand it correctly, refers to a global perception of the both fascinating and nauseating cycle of life and death -- something close to Qoheleth's (Ecclesiastes') "vanity" -- in which the individual and his/her destiny becomes breathtakingly insignificant.
- i like this. refreshing.
ts
TS,
the reductionist in me really does not think that one's repentance for anything, really registers or makes a difference to the universe at large.; and therefore, i can't imagine how it would make a difference to me personally, inside, as i am part of the universe.
Perhaps only leading us to a more sober, modest approach of ourselves and our interaction with/in the world.
It's the same paradox I hear in Chinese taoist writings: antitheses, contradictions, antagonisms are all part of the order of the universe we're in, and as distinct characters we are bound to play a relative and antagonistic role. Yet understanding the tao you also rise over the contradictions you are a part of.
Perhaps it is just about making ourselves, and the world, slightly more fluid.
perhaps my becoming an atheist, and rejecting anthropocentrism and terms like "repentance", is indeed a form of repentance in and of itself? a repentance from my life up to now, and a repentance from the arrogance of our species.I like this idea very much. Reminds me of Jacques Monod (Chance and Necessity) who, when accused of destroying the basis for spirituality, answered that it does take some spirituality to accept a materialistic world vision.
For a "Mystical" perspective; it's an inate and humbling self-knowledge that precedes connection with the Divine, which precedes a holistic "washing of regeneration".
Differentiating between the logical order of theological steps can be difficult in an experiential analysis.
Is repentance called for specific "sins"? They are constitutive of whatever we are, just as supposed "good works". Or is it a generic attitude embracing all of our lives and beings?
I find for me that stopping to reflect on what I did well and what didn't go so well helps equip me for future encounters in my life. Since I am more concerned with avoiding the negative and just letting the good flow, repentance seems to gravitate around the bad, or "sins". So definitely not generic, but specific in both attitude and subject. After taking notice of and meditating on the negative feeling surrounding an action, it makes a much more memorable and lasting impression that affects future action. So repentance is more than just feeling sorry for me, but a path to continuous self-improvement.
In an xJW context, the question might imply: do we specifically repent from having been JWs? -- choosing it for some, remaining in for some time, for all? Or do we consider it as an unseparable part of our lives -- nothing to be especially proud nor ashamed of?
It was a part of my life. I can't change the fact that I was a jw and the things that were experienced there, so I go on neither proud nor ashamed. Although, from a repentance standpoint, I regret the loss of 10yrs of my adult life, loss of my family, the loss of better financial prospects and the introduction of a god of hate to others. However, I accept that those things happened as a result of my jw involvement, and am now changing from that course as a result of those regrets. So I guess I do specifically repent from having been a jw.
More importantly, do you think an overall attitude of repentance for everything is somewhat helpful (making us more thoughtful, less arrogant, less anxious too)? Do you think it is compatible with responsibility? Or perhaps an integral part of responsibility?
Compatable with responsibility? I definitly think integral. Repentance certaily seems to have a humbling effect. I would count it as an upward/outward experience rather than guilt which is a more downward/inward experience. So I think that repentance does indeed have a positive by-broduct on the overall attitude: peace.
1.For a "Mystical" perspective; it's an inate and humbling self-knowledge that precedes connection with the Divine, which precedes a holistic "washing of regeneration".2.Differentiating between the logical order of theological steps can be difficult in an experiential analysis.
1. Which is only true in certain religions. Not all faiths demand repentence from moral imperfections. 2. True LT. Spirituality isn't always dependent on human logic. Gumby
Gumbatious!!!!!!
Is there a list?
What does repentance mean to you -- if anything?
The Bible was written in picturesque languages, mainly Hebrew and Greek. Both laguages use simple and beautiful images to depict abstarct concepts. Turning is a significant image in Scripture. It is also an important action in the salvation experience. God desires for us to have a full and fulfilled life. He offers forgiveness to and for all people (John 3:16), but His forgiveness is not automatic (Matthew 7:21). Our sinfulness makes it impossible on our own to have a right relationship with God (Romans 3:23) and to spend eternity in His presence. Every attribute that is holy and good can be used to decribe Him (i.e. Psalm 86:8-15; 94:9-23; 99:1-5; 130:1-8; 139:1-14; 145:3-20; Isaiah 6:1-5; Rev. 1:17-18). God created man as His most prized possession to bless us and to enjoy fellowship and companionship with us (Genesis 1 & 2). However, man rebelled against God and thus rejected a perfect relationship with a perfect and caring God.. When we individually recognise the the perfection and holiness of god and compare it with our own imperfection and sinfulness, we begin recognising that we cannot have a right relationship with Him on our own merit. There are two primary reasons it is impossible for us to be in the presence of God on our own - (1) Because of who He is and (2) because of who we are. Because God is perfect He cannot allow sin in His presence. Sin is part of us and we are all blemished to the point that we cannot be allowed on our own into the presence of God. Sin separates us from God and the consequences of sin must be paid. John 3:16 is used as a reminder of God's love for mankind. Many scriptures indicate that God is love (1 Kings 8:23; Psalm 25:4-7; Jeremiah 31:3; John 15:9-13; Romans 5:8; Ephesians 2:4-5; 1 John 4:16). Not only is God loving, He is also just and righteous. Because He is just He cannot accept sinfulness. James 2:13 confirms the fact that God's judgement is without mercy. John 3:16 also communicates the righteousness and justice of Him. The word perish in John 3:16 points out the seriousness of sin to God and the impossibility of our situation. God's judgement is against sin. He is just and proclaims judgement against sin (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 9:16; Jeremiah 30:11; Matthew 12:36; Hebrews 9:27; Rev. 16:7). Romans 3:23 reveals our sinfulness before God. there are many words in hebrew and Greek that are translated "sin" or "sinner." Some mean "missing the mark", "ethicalk wrong", "rebellion or transgression against God", "to refuse to obey a command", "some wrong done to someone else", " to depart from that which is right", "a lack of belief', "unfaithfulness or the betrayal of a trust", "to satisfy desire", covetousness', "a desire for something forbidden as in lust", "a hatred or enmity against God." Many verses call attention to the fact that we are sinners in need of a savior (Deuteronomy 24:16; Psalm 51:1-4; John 8:34; Romans 7:5; 1 John 1:57).
So, how can a person enter into God's presence? God chose to intervene in man's behalf. Imagine you are driving down the road and someonetells you to turn. He/she would be asking you to change direction. To turn is a straightforward image. We are to turn, to change the direction of our lives. Turn means repent. It can also mean to trust in Christ only. We are to turn from something - sin and self and turn to someone - to Jesus Chrsit only, in whom we put our trust. A number of scripture passages show the vivid imagery of turning from sin and self and turning to Christ only for forgiveness and eternal life. This is known as repentance.
Isaiah 45:20-22 draws a sharp contrast between idol gods and the rue god. we are to turn from idols to Him to be saved. Isaiah 55:7 paints a vivid picture of turning from unrighteousness and turning to the Lord for mercy and pardon. Ezekiel 33:10-11 shows that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked; rather, He desires that they turn from their ways and live. Acts 3:19 is clear that we are to "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out." Peter quotes from Psalm 34:12-16 in 1 Peter 3:10-11 to encourage people to turn away from evil. In a familiar passage (Luke 15) Jesus taught about lostness using three parables or illustrations: a lost sheep, a lost coin, and a lost son. In each case He gave a beautiful picture of God's compassion and the seriousness He places on each individual out of relationship with Him. We must turn from sin and self and turn to Chrsit only to be forgiven and receive everlasting life. If aperson is willing to turn to Chrsit and Him only that person will have everlasting life. Jesus' parables in Luke 15 have celebration as a central theme.When the shepherd found the missing sheep, he celebrated with friends and neighbors (verses 5-6). The woman, on finding her coin, called her friends and neighbors together, saying, "Rejoice with me." (verse 9). On his son's return, the father instructed his servants, "Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and ceebrate. For this son of mine was lost and now is found.' So they began to celebrate (verses 22-34). When the lost are found, celebration occurs in heaven. jesus left no doubt that what happens on earth must miror the heavenly partuy in spirit and joy. God invites all who put faith in Jesus to live forever in His presence. To be in the presence of God is the most fulfilling and joyful experience one can have. Christians have accepted God's initiative in Chrsit and have had their sins paid for by the sacrificial death of jesus; they will be in God's presence for eternity. Eternal life is described not only as living in heaven later, but also as enjoying abundant life in fellowship with god now. If a person trusts in Christ and receives Him as savior, he or she will receive eternal life and heaven. Heaven is both here and hereafter. A follower of Jesus is given the capacity to have life that is complete, full and and to use it to your greatest potential. Man was created to live in complete fellowship with god and to enjoy the potential of being His most prized creation. Jesus promised, "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly." (John 10:10). Abundant means more than adequate; present in great quality, richly supplied. These definitions would indicate thet abundant life is complete, full and being lived to its highest potential and beyond our expectations. Abundant life does not mean that you will never have sorrows, crises, disappointments, or defeats. It means that you will have the God who created you to personally nurture and direct your life through the Holy spirit. A few scriptures that confirm this are Romans 8:12-17; Romans 8:26-30; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:26-27; Galatians 5:22-25; Ephesians 1:9-14. 2 Corinthians 5:17 reminds us that life in the spiritual dimension begins when a person accepts Jesus as Savior and is freed from the eternal consequences of sin and rebellion against God.
A few benefits from living in a right relationship to God are Fellowship with Him; Peace, love and joy; God's blessings (now and forever); Change of perspective (seeing situations and people from God's perspective, realising that you are loved and can and should show compassion for others; Awareness that god is in control no matter the circumstances; Recognizing that nothing can sepaarate us from God's love; life filled with hope; A new way of living ---- By Faith, learning to trust god for everything.
Just as scripture can help us relate to heaven now, so do key passages help us relate to heaven in the hereafter: John 3:16; 1 Peter 1:3-9; Revelation 21:1-6.
John 14:3 highlights the hope Christ gives us for all eterninty: "If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also."
Some benefits of life in heaven for all who accept Jesus are - Victory over sin and death, freeing us from all temptation and consequences of sin ( will not experience spiritual death); Capacity to more clearly see God's perfect plan and more completely experience His love; Being beneficiaries of Go'd wealth and glory; Ability to see clearly as there willl no longer be a need for faith; Fulfillment of our hope as there will no longer be a need for hope; Knowledge that, because of Jesus; we will live in the glory of God's presence forever. Those who do not accept Jesus as Savior will live forever outside from God's favor.
Of course, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society could never teach anything remotely comparable to the above because they have stolen Christ's authority, power and mediatorship and use it to manipulate and keep Jehovah's Witnesses shrouded in a dark and deadly prison.
Gumby:
1. It's more common than you might otherwise think, albeit the terminology might differ
Besides, I chose to use Christian terminology given that more folks around here are familiar with it than that of other religions.
Those who do not accept Jesus as Savior will live forever outside from God's favor.
What an arrogant, self-righteous and pompous thing to say! You know, this philosophy is IDENTICAL to the arrogant, judgemental attitude of the watchtowers, they also believe anybody who isnt a JW is "outside from gods favour". This is so offensive.
Those who do not accept Jesus as Savior will live forever outside from God's favor.
Are you trying to tell us that all Muslim, Jew, Agnostic, Atheist, Pagan, Hindu, Buddist, Confucianist, Taoist, New-Age, Wiccan, Animist, Australian Primal and all variations of those listed are going to Hell?
For some reason, that doesn't sound like being very merciful to me.
