Subliminal messages and the "nodding off" mind

by Lady Lee 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Reefton Jack

  Thank you, Ingenuous, for those inputs.

  After finally waking up to the fact that JW doctrine was all BS, I went through a period of intense self-disgust that I had fallen for it for so long.

  However, after learning of these facts about the JW indoctrination process, I got over that.

  Given the subtle, low level hypnotic effects brought about by the WTS teaching processes, how much "freedom of choice" did we really have?

  Some writers on this board claim that we were, in effect, "all JWs by choice."

  When defending my faith (usually at the doors), I can recall more than once asserting "If I thought there was anything wrong with my religion, I would leave it!" However, we may not have had the freedom of choice that we thought we did.

  More like, as my late father used to say, we had " The freedom to do as you are told."

  Jack
• 

  M.J.

  You think the WTS sets up certain convention talks after lunch intentionally? When everyone is nodding off to sleep? I'll tell you that at this last special assembly 9 out of 10 were nodding off at some point in the afternoon.
• 

  Lady Lee

  Ingenuous

  Thanks for those posts.

  Reefton

  However, we may not have had the freedom ;of choice that we thought we did. ... More like, as my late father used to say, we had " The freedom to do as you are told."

  It took me a very long time to understand the reality of the WTS brand of freedom

  M.J.

  You think the WTS sets up certain convention talks after lunch intentionally? When everyone is nodding off to sleep? I'll tell you that at this last special assembly 9 out of 10 were nodding off at some point in the afternoon.

  I read that and my stomach just knotted up. The really sad thing is that I think it might be true
• 

  Terry

  Those meetings were so boooring. About the only thing that kept me away were the kids or translaing (sign language).

  When you have heard the same thing over and over and over in a stuffy closed room where there are few distractions (even counting ceiling tiles gets boring after a while) it is so easy to nod off.

  Most of the people giving talks begin to sound alike. After a while it just numbs the mind.

  I have to wonder about the effect on our minds. I know repitition is one of the mind control techniques. But I think this half-asleep mind state must play a huge part of it too.

  Any ideas about this?

  You can't take any information into your mind without an act of will to focus the attention and extract the "meaning" content using an aware sense of purpose.

  So called "subliminal" learning is bunkum. Something for nothing is always bunkum. "Learn while you sleep" is the sort of alluring slogan that is sure to attract the lazy and irresolute among us. (I've certainly given it a whirl before myself).

  No, it requires effort, determination, and an active analytical mind to extract information from your enviorment, even the Kingdom Hall. That is surely why so many rank and file JW's don't really know the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses very well at all. It took me 9 years to come up to speed in that religion. Most of my actual education took place while I was in Federal Prison over the "Neutrality" issue.

  I recall after my parole going back to the Kingdom Hall with a real sense of "knowing" what the Society's Publications actually taught and being absolutely dumbfounded when I discovered hardly any of the brothers or sisters remotely connected to it at all! Why? Because they only attended meetings and "listened" without a foundation of concentration on the meat of the doctrines while at home.

  I'm of the opinion that the only genuine learning is what we give to ourselves.

  Terry
• 

  Lady Lee

  Terry I'm not suggesting by any means that nodding off during meetings gives a person some kind of special knowledge of what the doctrines are.

  I think very few JWs really understand what is being taught. Heck if you actually really read a magazine you can easily see that it says nothing.

  But the way of talking from the platform is hypnotic. It seems so reasonable until we of course begin to get our minds free and start thinking critcally.

  My ex was one of those who studied constantly. I think he could probably explain some of the doctrines of 1914 fairly well. But I think he was an exception.
• 

  Terry

  There is a state of sleepiness when people are very receptive to suggestion

  Let us not confuse simply following orders without protest with LEARNING new things. The difference is black and white.

  T.
• 

  Terry

  Some writers on this board claim that we were, in effect, "all JWs by choice."

  It is a participatory lottery, of sorts.

  You agree to play "the game". (I've heard many current JW's refer to getting along in the organization this way.)

  You agree to agree and comply with complying.

  It is a default setting in your head which you adjust going in.

  Disagreeing is immediate grounds for disqualification from the game; so, it isn't an option.

  You learn to live two lives: one public and one private. The cognative dissonance becomes easier from the constant compartmentalizing of your life into the two identities.

  The "choice" is one of staying in the game for the long haul ___in case you win big at the end____.

  It isn't much different than a gambler at a table nursing their chips along and trying to hit a winning jackpot.

  The intellectual death which ensues is what destroys the QUALITY OF LIFE.

  Or, as Davey Crocket said, "You're walking around, but, you're dead as a beaver hat."

  T.
• 

  Terry

  But the way of talking from the platform is hypnotic. It seems so reasonable until we of course begin to get our minds free and start thinking critcally.

  Amateur speakers.

  That's mostly what you are dealing with.

  To put across a point in a public talk you first have to genuinely understand the point you are making. Further, you need a competent vocabulary and the ability to choose what not to say.

  The majority of people in any walk of life who not only cannot get their point across in conversation, but, whose biggest fear is public speaking emphasizes this ineptitude of mental acuity clearly.

  In surveys on what people FEAR most the top of the list is invariably PUBLIC SPEAKING.

  Few people are completely clear and comfortable with the content of their own mind. Moreover, the word choices and order of sentences belies confusion and disorder. HOW MUCH MORE SO a member of a religious cult indoctrinated to give platform talks about subjects which have little relevence to the actual world in which we live!

  Being bored at a Kingdom Hall is a sure sign of intelligence! Perhaps the ONLY sign available.

  Terry
• 

  Frogleg

  FWIW, I agree with Terry. It is interesting, Terry that you mention your parole, and the effects that it had on your understanding, spirituality, and person; for you have mentioned in the past why you needed a parole. It doesn't matter how many times we hear something, nor what state of semi-conciousness we might be in, nothing will really make any dent on our brain as data to be used, unless we apply it to something.

  Since leaving the Borg, I have become an avid participant in The Church of Cosmic Irony, and I know, I just know, that some time after Terry got back to the KH a discussion or two went down in the back room as to whether Brother Terry should be made a MS or Elder, to which at least one elder had had to remark, "Of course not! Why, he's an ex con! What would people say?"

  And there is the difference, the patoots that sit and "listen" and go thru the rote motions aren't really learning anything; and the constant results of their half-hearted efforts will always be to miss the point. It is only AFTER you apply what you've heard, i.e. test it, do it, trust it, that you can really understand it and be said to learn it.

  After all, how many times have the slack-jawed, drooling JW masses been told over and over "Let no one mislead you.", and been told by none other than their King, and yet.........
• 

  Mysterious

  Nothing subliminal in my head. I was a million miles away. I probably still have an active fantasy life today just from distracting myself during meetings