A Perspective on Judgement

by bebu 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Excellent point, frogleg. My pastor taught that guilt over past actions is unproductive. If our conscience prods us to do better today, that is what makes us better human beings.

    Tetrapod, I'm going to stream my own thoughts here, so please forgive if I ramble. My entire Christian life I feel led. If I don't change, I stagnate. I've seen it happen often enough with some of my fellow Christians. I often wonder, how do they turn off that inner voice? It must eat at them every day. I'll give you two work examples that permanently changed the kind of manager/employee I am. First of all, "Why do I have to forgive a vicious, manipulative jerk?" and second, "The higher up you go, the more people you serve. Be a servant of all."

    Having put in twenty years with my employer, I have now outlasted most of my enemies. Now I am sorry I wished evil things on the people who made my life hell. They haven't changed, they are as cruel as ever. AND their career is stalled. I am sure some of them gnash their teeth as they see me promoted and rewarded over and over again. In their eyes, I'm no different than they are, maybe a bit more of a patsy. They just don't get it. An employee that is humble enough to admit to her mistakes is ten times more valuable to her employer. So I succeed while they languish. Besides, and this is the big revelation to me, these people have to live with themselves every day. I don't like being around them. How do they stand it? Now, I feel sorry for them, and I understand the phrase, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." I can forgive now, because I finally understand that I have all the wealth.

    Being a servant of all. A manager is not on the front lines. My staff are the ones who take the big hits every day, interacting with the customer, meeting dealines, putting out fires. So my job is to make their job as easy as possible, to remove roadblocks, and to be sure they are happy and healthy. Well, actually, I have it a little easier. I have a small group of supervisors who I take care of who in turn, take care of my staff. When we get together, the people are top on my mind, "How is Sally Sue doing? Is her son back from the hospital yet? I get the impression she's getting a little bored, is it time to give her a new challenge?" I have never thrown my authority around just because I can. I give away the exciting jobs to my subordinates so they can learn and grow. My job is hectic. When I took over this large unit, I often lost sleep worrying about the staff. But I've thought long and hard and the alternative (not caring) is just not worth it. Better I lose a little sleep and the staff get taken care of. Is it worth it? My boss says so. Talented people line up to work for me.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien


    jgnat, i will ramble too a bit.

    yes, i agree with you. change is part of being a human, whether you are a christian or an atheist.

    JWs don't change. they're not allowed. ergo depression and the crazy stories we all hear about here on this board.

    i like your managerial style. i would take you are a higher-up for sure. i was a manager for a few years too, recently. i actually hated it, because when i leave work, i actually don't want to think about work. i don't want to lose sleep over it. that said, you are a good person for your appraoch. the needle that broke this camels back was when i had to fire someone. it was terribly stressful, even if i thought the guy was a jerk. a week later, i went to my boss, and resigned as a manager. i took a pay cut, and went back to being a regular sys admin. why? because i could not find the strength that you describe. well done.

    lately, i am having issues with morality. and it goes along with the change/stagnation issue. i question everything. why? why? why? why? you know? you could say that it is my conscience forcing me to question everything. but, ironically, as a result, my conscience has become very flexible. and as a result, my morality is flexible too. i don't know if this is dangerous yet, but i guess i'll find out.

    i could follow my conscience, but it's impossible for me to tell what the long range effects of it are.

    if there is a god, as bebu asserts, then i hope he understands.

    if i don't make a big impact on our cultural world, then i can't see how my conscience will mean much when i am gone. and if it won't mean much when i am gone, then why (!!) does it mean anything now? scary questions. in a way, you and bebu have it better than me. and in another way, it doesn't matter at all.

    TS

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    My favourite scripture. Someday humanity shall see beyond the illusory judgements of an illusory god, stand back, and render judgement upon the god we have created.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    A thoughtful and honest reply, tetrapod. I salute you.

    lately, i am having issues with morality. and it goes along with the change/stagnation issue. i question everything. why? why? why? why? you know? you could say that it is my conscience forcing me to question everything. but, ironically, as a result, my conscience has become very flexible. and as a result, my morality is flexible too. i don't know if this is dangerous yet, but i guess i'll find out.

    I am having the same troubles. Lately I have explored the unthinkable, what if I were to set my own morality not based on the book? The book provides security for many. They are assured that if they follow the dictates of the book, they are moral. But as you and I know, great excesses and abuses can also stem from obsessive deference to the book.

    So I got to thinking for a few days, what if I were to set up my own morality, bookless? I have decided one of my main precepts is "do no harm". But how far does that extend? By my negligence or inaction, do I set in motion a cascading set of events that could span generations? All of a sudden, my every action gained greater import. My head started to hurt. So I've gone back to the book for a while.

    Then there's the problem of "do no harm to any creature". But I've sorted that one to my own satisfaction. I'm an omnivore, and my first obligation is to the human race. Bring on the eggs and ham!

    I know it, and the day is coming soon. I'm going to have to re-examine my foundations. Where's the aspirin?

  • bebu
    bebu
    But how far does that extend? By my negligence or inaction, do I set in motion a cascading set of events that could span generations? All of a sudden, my every action gained greater import.

    jgnat, What a feeling that is, to see it all seems so impossible even when the goal is so worthy!

    I now think that faith touches these things in a great way: what we cannot do, God promises shall be done in the end, just to honor the (small) faith we have. If that is not a reality, to me it all looks like we really do just "chase after the wind"...

    Tetra, there is that old cliche that 'God knows every heart'. This is what it all eventually comes to. And if this is true, think about its implications; it can be comforting as well as unsettling. Comforting because all the things you feel are SO unjust from your perspective, you can really, really relax about!--for God works within your perspective and really "gets it" with you, even if you may be mistaken. (To make an honest mistake is no sin to God.)

    But it is unsettling because there's a huge amount of stuff that we find inexcusable--by our own standards--that we all shove off and earnestly pretend doesn't exist. And that part will be the real problem for us one day, imo, not the other.

    So it seems to me that humility is a virtue that opens a door toward God, within any morality framework or religion. I think it's the answer to the "unsettled" part of ourselves.

    bebu

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    mmmmmm, deeeeeeeeep thoughts.....

    Bebu, I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.

  • bebu
    bebu

    I am too, jgnat.

    There's a lot to think about, here.

    bebu

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    bttt just because I like it so much.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    I think we are all influence by the faulty god image that the WTS had instilled in us. Simply judgement will not come as fast and furious as they claim. It will help to read what other sincere Christian religions have to say about divine judgement and eschatology.

    Clearly innocent children can't be judged on the basis of their parents actions nor can billions of adults on the basis of their governments actions, as the JWs claim. Nor of course does one's attitude to the WTS have any judgemental value before god (remember they wrote that they will feel no sadness at armageddon for the death of accursed disobedient apostates). Is Satan the real god of the WTS?

    To put it in short armageddon will not come when and as the JWs believe in their infantile understanding of divine policies let's not forget they have a very poor charlatan's record when it comes to biblical interpretation with endless shifting on numerous issues.

    Another eschatological concept is that God's kingdom will arrive and rule causing hundreds of millions if not billions of humans to accept the gospel and gain eternal life with armageddon coming after that upon those that will under satanic incitement gather to war against the saved during a final hour. THey will be all adults fully informed and uncoerced in their final deadly decision. These events could be played out over millenia.

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