A Perspective on Judgement (page 2)

Narkissos

bebu,

Are you sure the idea of "free will" ultimately resisting God's light is... scriptural?

I'm afraid you depart from Paul here:

So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, "I have raised you up for the very purpose of showing my power in you, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.

For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.

As far as dogmatic synthesis is concerned, I highly recommend Karl Barth. My personal summary fwiw: judgement actually cuts through everyone; any salvation is a reproved's salvation (or, we are all both reproved and saved); we all resist light/God as much as we can and nobody would be saved unless by the overwhelming power of light/God.

LittleToe

I enjoyed it, too, however I have to wonder how it sits with Jesus' words in Matt.25:31-46 regarding the amazement of the final judgement.

bebu

Interesting summary, Narkissos!

any salvation is a reproved's salvation (or, we are all both reproved and saved); we all resist light/God as much as we can and nobody would be saved unless by the overwhelming power of light/God.

But I don't know if we resist God as much as we can... maybe just to the extent that makes us feel pleased or safe, or in control? A certain size of window that we generally work in. I wonder how truly aware we are of what we are doing, whether consenting to or resisting God.

It is tempting to slice this up into 2 air-tight compartments, but there's so much leakage between them I don't think it's so 2-dimensional. Paul considered people accountable for their actions, even while he said that God is the one who chooses. ...Perhaps it's a matter of perspective we can see better using time; that is, in the present we understand our own responsibility, but looking backward, we see that God called us, afterall...

(gotta cut down on this stuff)

bebu

Shining One

Tetly,
Contrary to what we were taught, its not about how righteous we think that we have been, its about who we put our faith in. "For we are saved by grace through faith and not that of ourselves, it is a gift of God not of works lest anyone boast." Eph. 2.8-9
That's not a single scripture exgesis. That particular verse 'nails it' and is backed by many others.
Rex

Shining One

Narkissos,
You nailed it, for what its worth, I commend you.
Rex

nowisee

well, i am glad that tonight is the night i came here and was able to see this thread.

much food for thought, and i am currently busy taking inventory.

thanks bebu, as always, and with much love, nowisee

jgnat

Marvellous, bebu. Your reflections bring to mind a scripture I have puzzled over for twenty years.

But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:15 WEB) http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/3-18.htm

and

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then I shall know even as also I am known. (1 Corinthians 13:12, King James Translation) http://pekarmal.customer.netspace.net.au/MD_a_mirror_darkly.html

It seems to me that when mortal man comes face-to-face with perfect God, what we see is a reflection of ourselves, unadorned, self-deception stripped away. I wonder if this may be why the prophets cringed when God came a-calling. To see ourselves as we really are, well, it can be shattering.

I choose daily to be alert to that inner call that points to my weakness. I can see God in the face of a humble homeless man or the lonely tears of a neighbour. If I ignore that inner call, I become less. If I do, I become more like Him. Perhaps the great repentance is to force myself to look in that mirror and take stock.

bebu

(((Nowisee)))

Those verses are great meditative ones, jgnat. Like good chewing gum.

To see ourselves as we really are, well, it can be shattering.

It is something I can barely handle whenever I catch a glimpse. I never expected the things I have come to see in myself--how deeply distorted I am in many ways... but seeing them puts a sharper edge to my appreciation for God's grace.

bebu

tetrapod.sapien

jgnat,

i love that movie, Mulholland Drive (your pic).

bebu,

sounds like if i died right now, i would be on my way to hell, since i have "chosen to be left alone by god". but don't worry; like any good atheist, i would debate with him about his choice.

rexette,

Contrary to what we were taught, its not about how righteous we think that we have been, its about who we put our faith in.

if there is a god worth his salt, he will reward me for my skepticism in light of the evidence for his existence, and rejection of faith altogether. you know, for using my well "designed" brain. i hope he is gracious with you.

TS

Now What?

Hi jgnat!

Marvellous, bebu; Your reflections bring to mind a scripture I have puzzled over for twenty years.
But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:15 WEB)

I recently came across this Scripture in my readings. I believe it was in St. Bonaventure's Journey to the Mind of God. I just thought that I would mention it if you wanted to pursue it further if it has been puzzling you all these years.

And yes, this is a marvelous thread of Bebu's

A Perspective on Judgement

Share this