4 years have gone by since this thread was started . . .
There are now more JWs than ever before.
I wonder, though, if there are more Informed Apostates now than ever before?
How the Internet Means 'The End' for Apostates and Opposers of the Society
by slimboyfat 89 Replies latest jw friends
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saywhat29
Hey everyone, just checking in and looked at this thread and found it very thought-provoking. Reading everyone's response I have to say that only time will tell. Honestly, teh_evil apostates have done a great job in getting out information about the WTS and its bullshit. If you enter "Jehovah's Witness" in a search, this place pops up for heaven's sake along with FreeMinds, Jwfacts, and Silent Lambs.
And I have to say the internet saved me a lot because when I was having my own issues with the JWs and the belief system I turned to the anonymity of the internet for support, one of the greatest advantages of the blasted thing. I then learned the truth about 'da troof' and freed myself of the mental shackles of any deity, especially the WTS' version of Sky Daddy.
BUT. That doesn't change the fact that the Internet also offers Apologists and Witnesses places to congregate with each other and I have to say that rarely are any minds open before they are 'ready' to. If a person sees flaws within their belief system then chances are they will be more open to reading apostate material and hearing some form of opposition to teh_society. If they are not and they believe it hook, line, and sinker, they will ignore anything you have to say, label you an apostate and ignore anything reasonable point you make. Read Youtube comments (if you can stand to) and see for yourself. They watch the videos..and afterwards tell you how
"jehover will make you pay for this!!!!.... Apostate, turn back before it's to late!... Stop trying to destoy meh faith!!1 You should b ashamed of urself!'
You can spell it out for them, post links, break it down bullet point by bullet point but witnesses still post they same ol same old.
Myself, when I was younger I remember coming to these boards, being an apologist/lurker, and arguing with "angry apostates" about all the good witnesses have done... and how they were twisting things around!!! Liars!! I was also 14 I believe. Not ready. But I remember reading about 1914 and thinking they were just harping on that date to make witnesses look bad unaware of how important that date was to my own belief system..and in my little mind knew the WTS was right and the bad stupid internet peepul were wrong.
I think the internet is a perfect tool for giving support to Witnesses since, well it's easy to feel alone when you are disfelowshipped, questioning, or fading. But all the information that is out there that damns them can be read by a believer and if they aren't open they can ignore it- worst they can find some apologist to twist everything out there to make the Watchtower seem right again, and go on there merry little way in their little bubble.
It's a great tool but it's also a great tool for them as well. I don't agree with Slimboy's premise that it means the end for apostates though.
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cantleave
The internet provides affirmation for those having doubts and who pluck up the courage to go against the advice of the WTS. It will help those who are in the process of breaking the cognitive dissonance, those who are ready to open their minds. A devout member may read something on an apostae site, but will remain unaffected or will dismiss what has been read.
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Heaven
Does slimboyfat still hold to this premise some 4 years later?
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yourmomma
I would like to point out a post that Terry made in this thread that was almost prophetic. You can seen in 2010 that what he points to as a way the WTS can hurt itself is tightening its grip on the rank and file. That is exactly what has been happening in the past 2 years. The stuff that is going on now is insane, and people that i know who never would have considered leaving are, because the WTS is insane with their micromanaging. I feel the WTS is drunk with power and are crushing the rank and file in every aspect of their lives. This will keep the nut jobs in, and sift out any JW's with an ounce of liberal thinking. thats how i see it. here is Terry's post, I have to say between this post below and his post on debates, they are 2 of the best posts i've read on this board:
Terry's post: "The greatest danger to the Watchtower Society is that which they do to themselves by tightening the controls on the rank and file. By wringing every last drop of obedience and conformity from them, the FDS burns them out. The burnout reduces them to a cinder useless to their own selves, their family and to the Kingdom Hall.
Just like alcoholics, the mind-controlled Jehovah's Witness has to hit the very bottom of their existence to seek an alternative. Only the most empty-of-self non-person clings to the fantasy hopes of the New Order now. Busy-busy-busy....tired...sick...exhausted....faltering...WARNED!....slow...slower......DISFELLOWSHIPPED!The ranks of the EX-JW are a kind of corollary to this natural sifting process.The utter failure of Watchtower policies automatically increases the ranks of the Ex-JW. But, not all Ex-JW's become apostate!The craving of a person who has lost "self" is to be told what to do by an authority figure! That is how the churches will benefit from this winnowing process of Watchtower failure.Only the THINKING few who examine the cause of their plight will ever escape the mind-control destiny and become Apostate.From the state of Apostacy, only a few will linger to battle the giant feckless machine of Watchtowerdom.Such sites as this, The Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum, afford a glimpse to the confused, the sick, the faltering and pig-headed. The glimpse is a damning one!Ultimately, only a thinking mind can see the way clear of control is to control yourself."
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slimboyfat
Does slimboyfat still hold to this premise some 4 years later?
No. But I still think the Internet is not an unqualified blessing for the cause of apostasy. On the one had it has helped many out of the Witnesses, just by virtue of the easy anonymous access to so much information, that is for sure. On the other hand the Internet has tended to promote the "fade" as the form of exit from the Watchtower, which in many ways helps the Watchtower to silence local voices of dissent. (Our bravely vocal companions from Glasgow being a notable exception)
I have noticed that this forum has become friendlier in the past four years however because I was, on the whole, chewed up and spat out the first time I floated this thread.
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WuzLovesDubs
leaving - there might be more than ever JWs but how many of those are secretly living two lives with one foot out the door now because of the internet? Sure...the JWs are baptizing their own kids but the number of hours spent in service vs how many are actually baptized belies the fact that NO progress is being made there. More youth are leaving than ever before and word is spreading about their lies and deceit and nothing can stop the Tide.
I spent many years faking being IN when my mind and heart were OUT just because I knew I would lose my family. As do they all.
It will fall...it will fall.
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restrangled
I remember my Dad who left after 1975, and he kept his thoughts to himself (ex-elder)...this went on for years until the Internet started up. Before the year 1999 he had in is hand the letter to Hitler from the Watchtower society, and much else.
Obviously he was searching, looking for back up etc. This was way before Google, or sites like this. He was desperate for support.
I think of myself,.....I never even thought about these sites, until I was shunned at age 45 by my mom after being out since I was 18.
I was just searching for support of some kind, googling Jw's, and found this place, and here I am, 4 years later.
I can't imagine the number of hurting JW's, exJW's, or those still in with their brains frying in frustration.....just reading here.
And none of it means apostasy.
r.
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leavingwt
leaving - there might be more than ever JWs but how many of those are secretly living two lives with one foot out the door now because of the internet? Sure...the JWs are baptizing their own kids but the number of hours spent in service vs how many are actually baptized belies the fact that NO progress is being made there. More youth are leaving than ever before and word is spreading about their lies and deceit and nothing can stop the Tide.
I spent many years faking being IN when my mind and heart were OUT just because I knew I would lose my family. As do they all.
It will fall...it will fall.
On one level, I get what your saying. On the other hand, I wonder what percentage of the 7 million publishers have suicide cards in their wallets? I wonder how man JW kids are being treated as freaks for not celebrating holidays and political neutrality? I wonder how many million people are being shunned by JWs? I'm guessing that in ALL of these categories, the numbers are at an all-time high. This is just my guess.
I hope you're right, I'm simply not optimistic on this point, at all.
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leavingwt
Slimboyfat:
On the other hand the Internet has tended to promote the "fade" as the form of exit from the Watchtower, which in many ways helps the Watchtower to silence local voices of dissent.
Do we have evidence that this promotion has translated into more faders than in the past?
-LWT