2,000 US and 25,000 civilians now dead in Iraq

by Simon 159 Replies latest social current

  • jt stumbler
    jt stumbler

    Without a doubt, the sacrifice Americans are making in Iraq is noble. The USA is truly trying to give the Iraqi people a chance at freedom after decades of oppression, courtesy of Hitler lite, Saddam Hussein

    We are now finding out that many who opposed the removal of Saddam were allegedly being bribed by him. Yesterday, British anti-American guy George Galloway was accused by the U.S. Senate of accepting a huge amount of money from Saddam. Four high-ranking Frenchmen have been implicated in the oil-for-food scandal. And the evidence indicates Saddam bribed members of the Putin government in Russia.

    Remember, if the United Nations would have moved against Saddam, the U.S. and Britain would have been spared this ordeal.

    Unfortunately, the weapons of mass destruction fiasco and poor planning after Saddam's demise has shrouded the Iraq situation. Patriots like Brent Scowcroft adamantly opposed the invasion. Understanding that the battlefield would be exceedingly difficult, something the Bush administration apparently did not understand.

    So fair-minded Americans are confronted with a very difficult decision. The intent in Iraq is noble, but the actual war is far more difficult than the Bush people led us to believe.

    It is also very hard to gauge success in Iraq. The American press is largely anti-war, so it’s reporting emphasizes the negative. The terrorists play right into that. A bombing every day makes headlines, while successes go largely unreported. Thus, many Americans and the world in general see the conflict as a loser, because that's the way the media is spinning it.

    The solution to the Iraq situation lies with the Iraqis themselves. They must take over the fight from the coalition and defeat the Islama-fascists. President Bush would be foolish to give a public timetable, but privately he's got to make it clear to the Iraqi government that our sacrifice is not open ended. The Iraqi people must step up and soon.

    The disgrace of Iraq is not that we are there. Again, our goal of trying to establish democracy and anti-terrorism in the Muslim world is noble.

    No, the disgrace is that some Americans are actually rooting for the USA and Britain to lose the conflict. To lose it. That is treasonous and unacceptable.

  • Eyebrow2
    Eyebrow2

    No, the disgrace is that some Americans are actually rooting for the USA and Britain to lose the conflict. To lose it. That is treasonous and unacceptable.

    that sums it up for me.

    If I had a clapping emoticon...I would please it here.

    Well Said...thank you!

  • Jourles
    Jourles

    No, the disgrace is that some Americans are actually rooting for the USA and Britain to lose the conflict. To lose it. That is treasonous and unacceptable.

    Lose it? What do you mean? We already won the war, remember?

    alt

    Now if you're talking about a foreign military presence which is occupying a sovereign nation under the guise of falsified intelligence and that decision went against the UN dictates and this militray occupation is now suffering casualties due to rebel opposition, is that what you mean? Because if another nation invaded the USA and presented lies to the World as an excuse to invade, I would be part of a similar rebel opposition and would do whatever I could to make it a living hell on the invading force. I do not fault the Iraqis one bit for giving hell to the troops over there. They are doing what they feel is right.

    But you know what? It's all about "my country is better than yours" or, "my system of government works better than yours." And it's not "treasonous" to call for a withdrawal of American troops over there. Bush accomplished what he and his daddy wanted all along. Sadam is gone. Let the Iraqis sort it all out. Sadly, this won't happen. We will always have a US presence in Iraq. The US needs to gain a foothold where certain natural resources are abundant. Iraq is central to that foothold.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I can see from your posts that you hold strong opinions, I was interested in WHY you hold those opinions so strongly is all. Read what I post then

    It works like this, if you have opinions, something has caused you to have those opinions, that something is what I was asking for, not that I DEMAND you spend HOURS searching for anything.

    If you have'nt SAVED the information that caused you to form your opinion, then so be it.

    Do you save every website, newspaper and book you read in case someone asks you about them? Thought not ...

    Obviously my request has pushed butons and been seen as something else, this was not my intention.

    Your silliness has pushed buttons.

    OK by me, anyone holding an opinion who will not explain WHY they hold that opinion will get no 'listening' from me. I will stay out of your threads.

    Good. I have explained plenty if you have the gumption to read it.

    Without a doubt, the sacrifice Americans are making in Iraq is noble. The USA is truly trying to give the Iraqi people a chance at freedom after decades of oppression, courtesy of Hitler lite, Saddam Hussein

    It would have been nicer if America hadn't kept Saddam in power all those years wouldn't it? Doesn't America share responsibility for the decades of oppression when it was done with American weapons?

    We are now finding out that many who opposed the removal of Saddam were allegedly being bribed by him. Yesterday, British anti-American guy George Galloway was accused by the U.S. Senate of accepting a huge amount of money from Saddam. Four high-ranking Frenchmen have been implicated in the oil-for-food scandal. And the evidence indicates Saddam bribed members of the Putin government in Russia.

    Accusations are not FACTS. This government seems to like retribution and retaliation to anyone who doesn't go along with it.

    Remember, if the United Nations would have moved against Saddam, the U.S. and Britain would have been spared this ordeal.

    If American foreign policy with Iran and Iraq hadn't been meddling and selfish then all the citizens of those countries would have been spared much worse ordeals than our countries have endured.

    Unfortunately, the weapons of mass destruction fiasco and poor planning after Saddam's demise has shrouded the Iraq situation. Patriots like Brent Scowcroft adamantly opposed the invasion. Understanding that the battlefield would be exceedingly difficult, something the Bush administration apparently did not understand.

    Seems Bush and co. have very little understanding of anything important. They seem to put a lot of time and effort into planning corrup money making schemes though don't they. What does that tell you?

    So fair-minded Americans are confronted with a very difficult decision. The intent in Iraq is noble, but the actual war is far more difficult than the Bush people led us to believe.

    Why is it noble? It is to secure oil and make money. That isn't noble.

    It is also very hard to gauge success in Iraq.

    No it isn't. It's just that we haven't seen it yet.

    The American press is largely anti-war, so it’s reporting emphasizes the negative.

    ie. they report what is happening once we got rid of the embedded propagandists and obvious fairy-tales (private lynch)

    The terrorists play right into that. A bombing every day makes headlines, while successes go largely unreported. Thus, many Americans and the world in general see the conflict as a loser, because that's the way the media is spinning it.

    If bombs were going off in America would that be seen as the media spinning things to make it look bad?!

    The solution to the Iraq situation lies with the Iraqis themselves.

    Ah yes, we brake things (again) and screw things up for them and then we drop things when they get too rough.

    They must take over the fight from the coalition and defeat the Islama-fascists.

    No, Britain and America stay there until the country is stable no matter how much it costs or how many troops come back in body bags. The only early 'get out' is to admit it was a mistake, an illegal invasion and try those responsible (with death penalty for guilt).

    President Bush would be foolish to give a public timetable, but privately he's got to make it clear to the Iraqi government that our sacrifice is not open ended. The Iraqi people must step up and soon.

    Why must they? To save Bush's political ass? I think we should shove a rifle in his hands and dump him in the streets of Bahgdad and tell him to clean his mess.

    The disgrace of Iraq is not that we are there. Again, our goal of trying to establish democracy and anti-terrorism in the Muslim world is noble.

    What do do Bush and Blair care of democracy? They erode ours at every chance they get. What terrorism was their in Iraq before we got there?

    No, the disgrace is that some Americans are actually rooting for the USA and Britain to lose the conflict. To lose it. That is treasonous and unacceptable.

    Who? Where? Remember that saying "this is gonna be a catastrophe and a war we can never win" is not the same as saying "I WANT this to be a ..." I was against the war and I have been proved right on EVERY COUNT. I was right on EVERY LIE that Bush and co. told, the reasons for the war, the WoMD, what would happen etc. That does not mean that I want America "defeated". A true patriot doesn't send his fellow men on foolish battles for false reasons but makes sure that what they fight for is right and the reason is necessary. Bush is surely the biggest joke of a president in history and a shameful chapter in US history.

  • 144001
    144001
    Bush is surely the biggest joke of a president in history and a shameful chapter in US history.

    Not exactly. If he were a "joke," we could laugh, but when this wealthy and powerful gristle is out of office, we'll cry collectively as a nation as we extricate ourselves from the unprecedented debt attributable to his reckless spending, the erosion of civil rights at the hands of the fascists he's appointed as federal judges, the worldwide reputational loss resulting from his use of lies and other weapons of mass deception in an effort to justify his unprecedented, unwarranted, and entirely reprehensible invasion and occupation of Iraq, the environmental damage in ANWAR in Alaska caused by Bush's push to drill the last large, pristine wilderness area in the United States as well as his efforts to weaken all environmental protections, and, of course, his continuing efforts to destroy the separation of church and state that keeps the US from emulating governments like Iran.

    Indeed, George Bush is a "shameful chapter in US history," but not as shameful as the millions of fools who actually voted for this jerk.

  • jula71
    jula71

    http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

    To call it a "documentary" is pretty comical, nice work of fiction though.

  • acadian
    acadian
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    Thomas Jefferson

    jt stumbler said :The disgrace of Iraq is not that we are there. Again, our goal of trying to establish democracy and anti-terrorism in the Muslim world is noble.

    No, the disgrace is that some Americans are actually rooting for the USA and Britain to lose the conflict. To lose it. That is treasonous and unacceptable.

    Here's what some others nad to say...
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear. Harry S Truman:
    Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country Hermann Goering
    A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
    Thomas Jefferson:
    To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918) Theodore Roosevelt:

    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. (the "Patriot Act") Benjamin Franklin:
    I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. (how'd this get in here?)
    Thomas Jefferson

    And what was the point of all this . I don't know it took me so long to hunt and peck, I forgot what I writing about.

    Kind Regards

    Acadian

  • fleaman uk
    fleaman uk

    Yesterday, British anti-American guy George Galloway was accused by the U.S. Senate of accepting a huge amount of money from Saddam

    an accusation by the President and the senate is a safe bet that he hasnt done anything wrong.

    Anyway the west received tons of dosh from Saddam when they were arming him.....

  • Simon
    Simon

    It's ironic (and hypicritical) that Britain has criticised Iran for giving arms to Iraqi's that may be used to kill British troops.

    But it was OK for us to give arms to Iraqi's to kill Iranians ...

    BTW: Great quotes Acadian. They speak for themselves

  • Ticker
    Ticker
    The people who want to stop criticism of the president are the ones who have sold democracy down the river.

    About the only true democracy left is the ability for enough of the public to make enough noise that things get done.

    It's unbelievable that after all that Bush has done and caused that he is not only still in office and hasn't been prosecuted but still has some support! Same for Blair.

    When will people wake up? Are they so lazy or stupid that they just don't care? "Hey, so what if people get killed as long as I can drive my care and stuff burgers in my fat face."

    Thank you Simon for thoese comments. I've moved and so havn't had net for a couple weeks but I came back to read this thread with interest. I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

    The very problem I see on this thread with thoese who try to say were anti-American and anti-Bush is they have exchanged democracy for a look alike shell. They are the ones trying to suppress freedom of speech and promoting a blind and ignororant following even in the face of the American governments failure. This is playing out much the same as the Star Wars saga in which people give blind loyalty to the Empire believing it is a democratic society. Ones attack us who dare expose the hypocrisy of this government and label us as anti-American when in actuality we are fighting for the very values they first established.

    U/D - I was not referring to foreing leaders when I stated "Bush and all his Cronies" but rather to his circle of power or representitives. You have taken what I said out of context and added a meaning to it that was never their. Typical of thoese who continue to blindly follow their corrupt leadership, demanding that others do also and then you say were the ones serving these political God's.

    Ticker

    P.S. I know this thread is heated but Im not trying to be argumentitive but am trying to state a valid point of view.

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