by Shining One 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The Old Testament judgements have absolutely nothing to do with the spirituality brought to us by the advent of the Messiah
Jesus Christ Rex......this statement has got to be the worst out of your mouth. This evil god in the Old Testament is THE SAME god who brings you the New Testament. Did he have a personality change?
Btw.........quit dodging me on the other thread about Jesus not showin up when he said he would!
Gumbastard
Wait a minute, you comparing a loving and passionate Christian like Falwell to an Islamic radical ispossibly the stupidest assertion that I have ever heard. You should be embarrassed.
Rex
Rex? Do you know Falwell personally??? I am a Chrsitian -I dont agree with you saying he should be embarrassed? why? I certainly dont agree with everyone who says they are Christian....... I also have read a lot on Islam -as far as I am conserned -I would say it is a mind controlling religion- but like ALL religions I think good people ( some) are in them. It will take a reaping work to get those removed ( weeds) But we should not tell folk they can not have an opinion- we are FREE that is why God made us brains, & mouths, to use them an exchanges of thoughts WITH LOVE
The problem isn't so much with the Quaran (though it is violent and problematic), but with the Hadith. The Hadith is regarded as just as sacred as the Quaran, and it commands Jihad against all 'infidels' and so many anti-social activities I'm too lazy to type them all. One of the worst is the Muslim version of "Theocratic warfare," which is 'lying for the truth.' For instance if someone finds out just how violent the Hadith and Quaran are, lie to them and tell them modern Muslims pay no attention to such things. Bring glory to Allah by covering up his warts and disfigurements.
When I was a minister in the Detroit area I became acquainted with a lot of Muslims in Dearborn, which is just outside Detroit. Educated modern people for the most part, the fire of Jihad still ran hot in their veins.
It is not a peaceful lovey-dovey religion, except for the possible exception of the Sufi.
Nate
Oh my Gosh, Nate!
>The problem isn't so much with the Quaran (though it is violent and problematic), but with the Hadith. ; The Hadith is regarded as just as sacred as the Quaran, and it commands Jihad against all 'infidels' and so many anti-social activities I'm too lazy to type them all. ;
Thanks for bringing some honesty to this discussion, you have endorsed and not evaded my point. I guess you are not in 'lockstep' with the liberal bloggers who usually post here. I have finally found some honesty here. What I am used to is far different. Now, for the rest of you (Abaddon, Gumby, etc.) and your imagined cleverness at using the Lord's name in vain: I hope that you are proud to have stooped to the level below dishonesty; you are simply vulgar.
I wonder if Ozziepost is going to slap your hands? If you blasphemed Allah and lived in Saudi Arabia (and many other countries) they would trace your ISP and you might find yourself missing a few fingers later. In the most 'civilized' Islamic country, wife beating and female circumcision is legal....I read somewhere that Islam is going to eclipse all other forms of belief (including naturalism) in western Europe by the next two decades. I guess you libs better try to do domething to retain your freedom. Well, you could always come to the U.S.A.! LOL
Rex
Please see review here.
>Rex? Do you know Falwell personally??? I am a Chrsitian
Hi Mouthy,
Very faintly. I have (met him also) worked with some of his leadership at a conference or two and have some good secondhand info. Plus I have heard and seen him speak at his most broken times. I have seen him preach with tears of grief and with joy. Before that I assumed he was more of a political type but he is a preacher, and one with a heart for people. His love for people is immense and he has repented of the bigotry of 40 years ago (as have many other southern preachers). He is one very famous pastor who has invited gays and lesbians to have dialougue with him and his leadership, while firmly opposing their lifestyle, he encourages Christian love for them as well as others who sin (that includes all of us!).
He is actually a 'lightning rod' for the Southern Baptists on the political front. He takes the heat and the others are mostly left alone. Here is a man who built a church and a university from the ground up. He started a church that now has 35,000 members. Before the church had the university (Liberty) built he 'prayer walked' the whole area that they now own. They offer free seminary classes to any pastor who is presently serving Baptist congregations. His church supports many students from poor communities worldwide. They have several smaller churches reaching different language and culture groups within their facilities.
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6916
http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6925
Rex
Well that is nice to know. But I remember the fiasco of taking over the Jimmy & Tami Baker property NOT a GOOD thing in MY opinion
Why to go at missing the point.
1/ No matter WHAT the texts of the Christian faith and Islamic faith say, the followers of BOTH religions have behaved in disgraceful, inhuman fashions at various points.
Is this true or false?
**True, but with a caveat: all followers includes those who have no idea that their faith teaches**
2/ In 1000AD Islam made Christendom look backward and brutal.
Is this true or false?
**false dilemma, this does not have a true or false answer, there are too many variables**
3/ Now "Christendom" makes parts of Islam look backward and brutal.
Is this true or false?
**Obviously true**
4/ Yet 200 years ago Christians and the various religions they were members of typically would have been in favour of things we would find totally unacceptable given concepts like human rights.
Is this true or false?
**Alleged (claimed) followers of Christ would, just as there were those who would not.**
5/ You can claim the content is different, go ahead. But can't support with evidence any claim the behviour of the two religions is significantly different if one views the history of each religion over the past 1,000 years.
**Content is different: there are an infinestimal amount of Christians that are terrorists. Terrorism is often an institution of a culture that is warped by the teachings of caravan robber who revenged himself of the Jews and Christians that did not accept his assertion that he was a prophet. He told a lie so big that he made Hitler look like a 'piker'.
Is this true or false?
**You obviously accept my point. My focus is on the immediate followers of Christ who were ‘closest to the vine’ and being martyred for upwards of four centuries by the most brutal empire to have come along.
This puts you in an embaressing situation. You claim the Bible is, shall we say, a less brutal biook than the Qu'ran?
**I claimed the New Testament is. The Old Testament in content also shows the wrath of God often being carried out by world powers. The Quran is a book that mistranslates the Old Testament and applies Arabian Kingdom law to a cultish religion. It is a large version of the WBTS.**
Yet despite this it's followers have been just as brutal as the followers of the Qu'ran!
**The followers may or may not have been Christians and we might judge this by their actions though we do not know their hearts. With the Roman Apostacy there was practically NO way for a Christian to know he was being misled.**
What does that say about the average Christian and Muslim over the past thousand years? It seems, according to what you say, that Christians have frequently been less peaceable than their text would allow, and the average Muslim has been more peaceful than their source text would ask for, if your claims about the relative content are accepted as true.
**We fall upon the same general assumption that is an erroneous one at that. People are judged by their actions according to what THEY SAY they believe. We have an inherent nature and inclination to sin and guess what? Believers are afforded the full attention of the Evil One because those who are not are already perishing (until a Christian is led to witness to them and the person is saved.). The average Muslim is peaceful because he is not in a position to win by force. As long as he is opposed by a force that keeps him in check he is held to account by fear of the sword. Look at the deafening silence from the world's Islamic leaders when terrorism strikes, then look at the Hitlerian goals of the Arabs!**
Shock news; Muslims are frequently nicer than their beliefs require them to be but Christians often fall short of the basic requirements of their faith!
**Ah, there you go spouting an assertion that may or may not be true. Christians are held to a higher standard. You still do not account for the fact that a Christian generally behaves like a Christ-follower and not as one who does not know Christ!**
It's the same Bible, the one you describe as the 'text of Christianity'. The same God I assume? Did he go on an anger management course, or what?
**Not knowing theology, I assume you do not know of ‘dispensationalism’ or ‘progressive revelation?**
If you will criticise what you see as offensive/immoral content in the Qu'ran, I think you'd best accept criticism from others about offensive/immoral content in the Bible.
**God does not need me to apologize for Him, I offer you only a reasonable explanation as ‘apologia’. You fail to see that the Jews do not practice the Old Testament standards. Even they recognize that the era has passed. God's wrath is a terrible thing, it is also His right and nowhere does the Lord of Glory, the risen one, call us to convert others by force. He alone has province over judgement.**
To try and evade it like that just makes it look like you have a massive double standard. Read the history of the two religions in the immediate times after the death of the spiritual leaders in question. And? For ****** sake man; 6/ Jesus was betrayed by one of the Apostles!
Is this true or false?
**First of all, do not slander the name of Jesus. You don't need to stoop to that! Your question may be true, in fulfillment of scripture. Now compare that to the bloodbath of the caravan robber’s cohorts. You cannot be this ignorant of history, can you now? Comparison denotes the stark contrast between cultish behavior and honest persuasion.**
Open your eyes, you're so eager to prod at the mote in Islam's eye you ignore the beam in Christianity's eye! If I am a 'bigot' for pointing out the stark contrasts between the teachings of the two religions ... oh, I'd agree the teachings are to an extent different, and this underlines and proves MY ENTIRE POINT.
**NO, my ENTIRE POINT IS PROVED as I have refuted you in the above answers!**
That’s enough for now. I need to get off the ‘merry go round’ for awhile but its been fun.
Rex
Now, for the rest of you (Abaddon, Gumby, etc.) and your imagined cleverness at using the Lord's name in vain: I hope that you are proud to have stooped to the level below dishonesty; you are simply vulgar.
Well then......I'd like to make a public apology for sayin that. I'm sorry.
Gumdummy
*goes in closet and beats self with a 10 year old shoe used in the door to door work*
Gumby !!! Did you hear me Gumby Come out of that closet & put that shoe back No matter if it is 10 year old You aint getting any new ones...
