by Schizm 137 Replies latest jw friends
You may rest assured that there's not one single thing that the WTS is wrong about in which I learned of it from the "apostates".
Let me see here. Hmmmm....you formed your own opinion about a certain teaching contrary to the society and continued to believe it.....but yet your different than an apostate. How are you different Schitzo?
Gumass,
You know that's done been answered, here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/100898/1740362/post.ashx#1740362
.
It suggests that you believe that an individual spirit somehow maintains the body's life.
Satanus and whoever else is interested or involved:
No surprise here as this is believed by many. Life is propagated from one couple to another by procreation and is not maintained by a spirit (defined as a separate invisible living intelligence as perceived in this argument).
Satanus continues: Also, that an individual spirit, on it's own runs low on power, or becomes tainted somehow. It would follow as well that a spirit who got his connection w god rehooked up would be maintaining his body free from death.
This is nothing but the product of someone’s imagination. There is nothing within ourselves that existed in Adam’s mortal body or our mortal bodies that could prevent our death other than this tree of life now lost to us. Not even getting rehooked up with God can do that. Continued existence by being resurrected or changed by means of a Savior is now our only hope. This is promised to mankind and this is the only way such existence will continue.
Satanus continues: But primarily, for adam, this isn't death for the individual spirit, but rather, a death of the body
Some view this as falling from grace on that day and as a consequence access to the tree of life was cut off which could have turned things around for Adam’s mortal body. This would be within the parameters to the word death. And then the word day is also used for epoch, a lifetime, some period of time within the realm of ones physical limitations as a mortal human. We have historical evidence for it as you pointed out:
Satanus: although it took over 900 yrs for the his body to realise what had happened.
This is one way to look at it sure. The spirit within us, the spirit that returns to God at death should never have been defined or understood as: invisible living intelligence or a Being within us. The word Spirit has many possible definitions but like the wind it represents, seldom is the correct one used. The definition and use of the word spirit varies from verse to verse.
Schizm,
You said: I happen to be one such persons that have sent in such suggestions, and I've never been looked upon as an apostate nor treated like one. You, as well as most others here, need to wake up and smell the roses.
Why not show us what you suggested? Did you also talk them up in the congregation and get other opinions? Let us see for ourselves if you were a threat to them and their authority or not? How can we smell the roses if you keep them to yourself?
Joseph
Divided said: So, you shouldn't be taking credit when it's not due. All the things about which the WTS is wrong, and that I have knowledge of, I found out all by my lonesome. Now don't you wish that you could honestly say the same?
LMAO ! Whew, damn I needed that short laugh !
But, more soberly, I do take honest credit for figuring out enough on my own, that when I first found this site...I knew the WTS was a dangerous cult. I knew, because of the very personal damage done to me personally and my family. I knew because of the lack of love and the failed prophecies, two-faced JW's who could destroy friends and family by shunning. I knew personally....2 people who took their own lives -- after being disfellowshipped. One was my best friend. Everything that was dear to them was taken away, they were being treated as 'deceased' anyway, so they just completed the act.
My immediate family split up over this crock of a religion. My Mom -- DIED ! She needed a blood transfusion, we all watched her shut her eyes for the last time -- because of the lack of one.
I had not been to meetings for 3 years before that. I will say that that was the "straw that broke the camel's back." I earned my knowledge the 'old fashioned way'... I experienced it. I don't recommend it.
Coming to this site and others is a way of completing my 'education'. I needed help when I came here and I found it with so many kind, helpful people who had, in many cases, experienced the same as I did -- and sadly sometimes... much, much worse.
Rabbit asked: Next, I'm curious...what else do YOU think the WT has wrong ?
Divided sez:
If you search through my posts you'll find the answer to your question.
As you well know...I've read just a few of your posts already, I don't even intend to read thru them again. Almost everything thing you say is defensive of the WT, an 'apologist' and a rude contentious one at that. You have defended the WT & the Bible at ANY cost, you'll throw out logic and scientific fact in order to 'stick with your point', that's called circular reasoning.
That's why you can't hear what I'm saying --- properly. You hear "babbling."
Now, if you believe in your heart that the WT is wrong about anything...your ARE an apostate. You've even put it in print. If you don't tell the Elders about your apostate actions...just by posting here...you are an apostate. If your Bible/WT conscience doesn't make you go get the 'help' you need to 'get back on the right track' from the Elders...you are not 'trusting in Jah's earthly organization'...your ARE a redneck, er, an ...apostate.
I know what a big step it is to doubt for the 1st time. I also know what it may cost you.
However, even I would welcome you and forget your faux paux speaking about Lot.
I promise.
B-babbitt, er, Rabbit
Now, if you believe in your heart that the WT is wrong about anything...your ARE an apostate. You've even put it in print. -- Rabbitt.
I know the particular WTS statement you're referring to that makes you think such a thing, but there are exceptions to every rule. The WTS was aware of such "exceptions" when they issued the statement (i.e., "must accept the entire range of beliefs that are unique to JWs").
If you don't tell the Elders about your apostate actions...just by posting here...you are an apostate. -- Rabbitt.
With the exception of 3 or 4 summer conventions I haven't attended any meetings at all for over 30 years now. Obviously, you didn't know that! See, Rabbitt, there are a few things you don't know. LOL
I know what a big step it is to doubt for the 1st time. -- Rabbitt.
I've entertained doubts regarding certain doctrines for more than 30 years now, so this isn't exactly something new for me. One might even say that I'm a veteran at it.
BTW, I'm very sorry that you lost your Mom.
.
Oh dear. So you're one of those poor sods who left decades ago and conmntinued believing it was the right religion and was still mostly right, huh? You missed direct revelation of so much, in your 1975 exit. The "Generation" teaching was a doosy, when you heard it from the horses mouth, as it came over so slick.
My pity continues to grow deeper...
With the exception of 3 or 4 summer conventions I haven't attended any meetings at all for over 30 years now. Obviously, you didn't know that! See, Rabbitt, there are a few things you don't know. LOL
There's a plethora of things I don't know about you and things in general, but, I'm OK with that. From my viewpoint only, I'm glad you have "forsaken the gathering of ourselves together," (with JW's). For me, it was the hypocrisy I saw coming from the podium, that was the "straw that broke the camels back." This was at regular meetings, as well as assemblies, when I'd see Elders (& sisters in their very limited roles) get up before everyone, so pious and so very different, than I knew them to be in real life.
I grew to hate the absolute control the WT wanted to have over me. (You seem to have a pretty independent streak, too)
I've entertained doubts regarding certain doctrines for more than 30 years now, so this isn't exactly something new for me. One might even say that I'm a veteran at it.
Since you've had all these serious doubts for so long and don't attend meetings on a regular basis (hardly ever) and probably spend much more time with other people (xjw's) who have doubts and probably cannot 'go out in Service' (no regular meetings)...do you still consider yourself as a loyal JW ?
How do you see yourself in the 'big picture'?
The first time (here) that the nasty word 'apostate' seemed to apply to me...I was offended and kinda scared, too. But, lightning didn't strike nor did flaming balls of sulfur come flying out of heaven to strike me. I'm sure you may have felt offended when I called you apostate, too. Please understand...I meant that as a 'tongue-in-cheek' compliment. I am not a real apostate and I don't think you are either. It's almost a sick kind of joke among X-JW's, because the WT does view us as such.
To me, using the Bible as a base line, the WTS is the guilty party, they are the ones who have "gone (way) past the things written". They are the true apostates, imo. For the time being, (never say never) I believe the Bible is simply an interesting collection of ancient writings. I do not accept the Bible God as my idea of THE creator. The Bible God is just too violent, tri-polar, psychotic, anal, jealous, unfair and wishy-washy. We are supposed to be created in his image (heheh - maybe we are ) the thing is, His image varies too much! He's the God of Love, He's a jealous God, Jah of armies, He's a baby killer, He's a murderer of innocents...blah-blah.
I did not come to those conclusions quickly, easily or without extreme pain.
So, if I call you an apostate, because of your thinking and by your association...I mean that in more of a 'brotherly' way. Oooo...that hurt.
BTW, I'm very sorry that you lost your Mom.
Thank you. That was the proverbial 'ton of bricks' that had to fall on my thick head, before I finally realized what kind of religion this truly was. Now, if only for the blood doctrine, I don't want to attend a 'JW death watch' again. I don't want to watch the useless, preventable death of my children or grand children. I taught them this crap, now I need to try and undo this damage.
So why don't you go to meetings ?
Rabbit
bttt
