Franz' statement is outrageously unreasonable! (page 5)

VM44

Wasn't there a recent posting here about the word EVERLASTING, and how the Bible might not mean FOREVER when it uses that word? --VM44

Schizm

Adam and Eve had YET to eat from "TheTree of Life" That is why after their sin, God threw them out of the Garden and posted 2 angels at the intrance to prevent any from eating from the Tree of Life. -- TopHat.

Actually, you're quite wrong in saying that Adam and Eve had never eaten from the tree of life.

They had permission to eat from every tree in the Garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Obviously, the angels were posted at the entrance to the Garden in order to prevent Adam and Eve from CONTINUING to eat from the tree of life. Which, btw, shows that merely eating from such tree only once would not result in them having everlasting life. It's obvious that Adam and Eve were created in such a way that they would need to regularly eat from the tree of life in order to keep on living.

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undercover

Actually, you're quite wrong in saying that Adam and Eve had never eaten from the tree of life.
They had permission to eat from every tree in the Garden except for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.
Obviously, the angels were posted at the entrance to the Garden in order to prevent Adam and Eve from CONTINUING to eat from the tree of life. Which, btw, shows that merely eating from such tree only once would not result in them having everlasting life. It's obvious that Adam and Eve were created in such a way that they would need to regularly eat from the tree of life in order to keep on living.

Where do you get that load of shiite? Where in the Bible does it say that?

Here's what the NWT says:

22 And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” 23 With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.

Now, where does it say to "keep him from eating" from the tree of life?

proplog2

Jeff:

I am not personally attacking Ray Franz. He just stopped growing. He reached an impasse and that's where he sits.

Ray Franz is not in this forum because he chooses NOT to be. That's either arrogance or realism.

Ray was privy to certain information. He needed to do something to pay the rent. He wrote a couple books.

I was never in the "inner" circle of the JW world. Started going from door to door in 1950. Baptized in 1956.

I did what many JW's did. Lived crappy lives trying to obey silly rules that men like Ray Franz shared in enforcing.

No one is interested in MY story. And I don't have time to write it before I die.

Ray's criticism of evolution (in a blog) is intellectually inexcuseable. The damn Catholic church even admits man evolved but Ray can't cross that river.

I'm glad he wrote his history. I wish I had a history worth writing. But at least I don't keep deluding myself.

thinker

After eating from the tree of knowledge, God hands out punishment to everyone involved. The serpent must crawl on his belly (did it walk upright before?), Eve must have pain during child birth, and Adam must work the ground in order to eat. No mention of living or dying or how long they might have lived other wise. God also explains to Adam why he dies and turns to dust; namely because he was made from dust ! So it seems from the moment God made Adam from dust, Adam was always intended to return to dust.

The second tree, the tree of life would have allowed Adam to live to an Age. Judging by the recorded ages of Adam's ancestors, this was probably 1000 years.

thinker

steve2

I'll allow for the possibility that Schizm may have a valid point about Ray Franz. My reckoning is that no human should be viewed as an authority on what is or isn't "the truth". So, whether Franz is right, wrong or in-between, is neither here nor there. He's a human who is as infallible as anyone else.

Isn't it good that, since leaving the Watchtower, we've left behind the cultic need to bind ourselves to other humans as authority figures regarding which path we "should" be on?

gumby

Schizm?....oooooooh....yea....he's the guy! Yea, he's the one who thought Lots daughters stole from his baby makin testicles and impregnated themselves with what they extracted! Yea,that's him.... he's the one!

Gumby

LittleToe

So Schizm, let me get this right. Your position is that if Adam and Eve abstained from eating of the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad" and the "Tree of Life", they would still die, right?

Ooookay....

How does that make your position any better than the opinion you hold of Ray's?

luna2

gumby said: Yea, he's the one who thought Lots daughters stole from his baby makin testicles and impregnated themselves with what they extracted

Really? Like artificial insemination? Dang, those girls were ahead of their time...or something.

gumby

Luna sweetie......I wasn't jokin hun! Looky here and see fer yersef,

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/79678/1303124/post.ashx#1303124

Jizzum was in the funny farm at the time I believe when he wrote that jewel.

Gumsperm

Franz' statement is outrageously unreasonable!

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