Is it possible for the WT society to ever convince us of true reform?

by james_woods 29 Replies latest jw friends

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  james_woods

  What the WT teaches today regarding the soul and 1914 have been altered to the point that they resemble nothing Russell originally taught and have therefore lost all meaning and significance.

  That is quite true...some of the most important changes (generation) being made just in the past decade. I was just saying that Russell originally though up the date itself. I was never quite clear exactly what CTR thought about the soul - except that he seemed to be a "soul-sleeper". But isn't it truly strange - that they could change this many ideas little by little over the years, claiming "new light" - much if it for the worse - and yet we all seem to agree that it would be nearly impossible for them to change anything back in the name of honesty? In other words - it was so easy to tell their flocks that a generation is "overlapping", but it would have caused a riot to simply tell them they were wrong about the generation of 1914 (after preaching it for nearly a century) -
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  agonus

  Yep. If they reformed to the point where most of us would be willing to actually go back, there wouldn't be much of anything left to go back to.

  Although that's exactly what needs to happen...
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  undercover

  The cult as it stand today is nothing like it was at the beginning or 45 years ago.

  Or even 20 years ago. Twenty years ago we were still keeping an eye on the old folks still alive that saw 1914. They were our gauge to how long we had before Armageddon.

  Twenty years before that, dumb dubbies were looking forward to 1975.

  The cult basically re-invents itself every so many years. It has to. Old prophecies and expectations fail. New ones are made. They fail. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum...
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  agonus

  I have to say the dogmatic anti-soul teachings (along with the "anointed-only" communion) are one of my biggest doctrinal pet peeves. You're right, Russell's concept of the soul was much more nebulous, and I think "soul sleep" would be the closest thing to a label you could put on it. But now it's "Man does not have a soul. Man IS a soul. There is nothing conscious that survives death. End of story." Lumping the idea of a "soul" with Paganism (complete horse shit, BTW) as they do with everything they find distasteful.
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  Hoffnung

  They have done a lot of patch work, trying to repair the obvious cracks into their belief and organization system, so much that you can't see the original any more. But sadly that is all. they are not prepared or willing to go back to their basics and start from scratch. Everybody who was once JW and left, in order to keep some measure of faith in the bible had to start from scratch, as we were never taught the real basics. Every time they (the GB) were offered that opportunity they have turned it down. (Ray Franz, Carl Olof Jonsson, Ed Dunlap and many others tried and hit the wall). If they are not willing to start from scratch either, they will keep on patching and patching. What we are getting in the Watchtowers since Jaracz died, is not promising.
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  james_woods

  What we are getting in the Watchtowers since Jaracz died, is not promising.

  I only know what they are writing now because of quotes I read here, but it looks more and more like just a constant harping on "you MUST strictly obey the GB or else you will die at the end".

  It does occur to me that I have never seen the society admit they were ever wrong about anything - 1975? SOME JWs misunderstood - we never said anything would happen in 1975. These likely fell away because they did not have a theocratic heart when 1975 came and went.

  Generation of 1914 would not pass away? Silly JW rank & file - everyone knows a generation means that generation, their kids, their grandkids, and maybe more...this is your "new light" on this matter.
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  onemore

  I believe that there is just ONE damaging practice and doctrinal stand, that if done away with, the doors will open for significant changes in the organization; and that is...the shunning policy. They do away with the shunning and the JW will start living a more “normal life”. They could continue excommunicating members, as this practice is supported by the bible after all, but severe shunning is not.

  No more shunning, more of us will simply disassociate and cause no further troubles.

  No more shunning and more JW will exercise their conscience in matters of education and blood.

  No more shunning, and more of us will freely talk to others about the doctrinal and ethical problems of the Watchtower Corp.

  And I believe that that change could be brought from the outside in. There has to be a way to put pressure on the GB to change the shunning policy.

  Onemore
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  Mad Sweeney

  What they would need is a Worldwide Church of God style reformation. I don't see such a thing happening.

  There was a great one hour show about the WWCG reformation after Herbert Armstrong died on youtube but I can't find it at the moment. Interesting to see through google that the hardliners who refused to reform have made a bit of a comeback, too.
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  DagothUr

  And if they will indeed make true reforms in their doctrine and in the way they pasture the flock? Well, then they will be a bunch of nice and well intentioned people who believe in an ancient truckload of crap, aka The Bible. I'm done searching for God. If he needs me, he knows where to find me. That is if he truly exists...which I'm 99.9% convinced he doesn't.
• 

  Listener

  It seems impossible for them to be ablle to do this. The problem is that they look to the wrong person for guidance. They take the words of a previous writer and believe him to be guided by God's holy spirit and don't have the strength in themselves to move away from that mans writings.