Cult Comparison Chart (page 2)

ithinkisee

What do you mean ... schools?

-ithinkisee

jgnat

I found the best distinctions listed at:

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c09.html

This site distinguishes the sociological from the theological definition. Orthodox Christians label all so-called Christian groups who do not ascribe to the Nicene Creed to be cults. This would include Gnostics (ancient), Arianism (ancient), Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Jehovah's Witnesses, on the other hand, have declared the concept of the Trinity to be pagan, so that any church that follows the Nicene Creed (nearly all) are not "true Christians". Yet they also deny their roots in Arianism. They stand alone following their own unique blend of doctrines, and declare themselves to be the most complete.

One could argue, effectively, that any new religion that does not conform to current standards is at risk of being considered a cult. Christians were different enough from Caesar's state religion to be persecuted as a cult for a couple of hundred years.

I prefer to challenge the Jehovah's Witnesses on the sociological markers of a cult. Are they a high-control group? Do they manipulate their followers in to a standard of behavior, and punish those who do not conform? One could argue that armies have a lot of high-control features. They also have a tried-and-true recruiting and indoctrination process (boot camp). An effective army demands a high level of conformity and obedience.

It then comes down to the motive of the leaders. Governments need effective armies. So they allow coercive techniques to meet that end. What is the motive of the leaders of the cult? Are they adding to the individual, to the community at large? Or is it mostly for personal gain?

GPA Mean Scores (Standard Deviations)

Subject Group	GPA	Comp- liance	Exploitation	Mind Control	Anxious Depend- ency
Ex-Roman Cath.	65.26 (15.90)	17.63 (3.96)	14.47 (4.47)	17.58 (5.80)	15.58 (3.89)	Langone -n=19
InterVarsity	46.91 (8.10)	15.36 (3.91)	10.57 (1.96)	12.04 (4.01)	8.89 (1.38)	Langone - n=23
InterVarsity	42.15 *	12.71 (4.70)	10.37 (2.59)	10.59 (3.15)	8.48 (2.13)	Adams - n=27
ICC - Comp 1	105.60 (13.69)	31.70 (3.90)	19.30 (4.35)	31.48 (3.66)	23.13 (4.40)	Langone - n=40
ICC - Comp 2	108.50 (11.28)	31.86 (3.28)	21.79 (2.81)	30.43 (4.55)	24.43 (3.25)	Langone - n=15
ICC - Adams	107.68 *	32.96 (2.35)	20.18 (4.68)	31.43 (3.57)	23.11 (4.63)	n=28
Wellspring?	100.69 (18.91)	27.27 (5.98)	18.92 (6.49)	30.41 (5.12)	24.69 (6.12)	Clients - n=36
CAN Ex-Cultists	95.50 (11.45)	25.77 (3.17)	21.36 (6.35)	23.23 (2.00)	26.26 (4.43)	n=52
Diverse groups	110.70 (13.42)	29.27 (5.30)	22.96 (5.91)	31.64 (3.43)	26.52 (5.55)	Chambers et al.n=308

Wellspring

*SD not available

jgnat

Figured out:

ICC=Bible-Based International Churches of Christ

InterVarsity = InterVarsity Christian Fellowship

CAN = Cult Awareness Network.

Wellspring = a nonprofit tax-exempt corporation that provides a unique multi-disciplinary approach to residential cult-rehabilitation. InterVarsity and ex-Catholics were used as control groups in this survey. By the way, the Church of Scientology bought the rights to "Cult Awareness Network"

LittleToe

Don't worry. Q's just a bit pissd that everyone views the Mormons as a cult, just like the JWs

Qcmbr

IthinkIsee - I followed your link to the BITE page.

LT - Are you just a bit p*ssed that I consider BAs a cult ? :P

I remember a small town where I had just baptised some people and the local born agains did a leaflet drop telling everyone what a cult we were and to stay the heaven away. It struck me as kind hearted on one hand, this desire to stop the lds scourge but then on the other hand:

What the frag where they doing wasting valuable money publicising us when they could have invited people to Christ instead?
Why post lots of lies as well(it wasn't even half truths this stuff was way off beam and could probably have been used in a slander case)? You have to question people's motives when they tell lies. If your going to rag on mormons its much easier if you stick to the truth there's plenty of meat for the 'concerned' christian to chew on.

If you do a quick scout of the official LDS website you'll find a notable lack of comparison charts, refs to why BAs, JWs, Islam, Bhuddism , Catholics etc.. are wrong in fact you'll just find our teachings.

Anti-Cult activities are like McDonalds advertising how poor Burger Kings Fries are. The reality is EVERY christian is in a cult they just don't like to think they are and like bullies in the playground bolster their own self esteem by picking on others and the harsh truth for those who do public anti-

Qcmbr

..whoops where did my post end bit go?

Anti-Cult activities are like McDonalds advertising how poor Burger Kings Fries are. The reality is EVERY christian is in a cult they just don't like to think they are and like bullies in the playground bolster their own self esteem by picking on others and the harsh truth for those who do public anti-(insert your least favoured religion) work is that it is as wrong as the think your trying to fight (no I'm not talking about a specific issue such as abuse - I'm talking about the entire religion.) In your own way your just trying to get converts to your way of thinking . JWs try to free people from the world, ex- JWs who picket on the whole anti-JW ticket are doing exactly the same.

Identifying 'cults' and then pointing out why your cult is better than their cult leads to:

1/ Hatred - I'm sure you've all met members of others faiths who were nasty at the door to you becasue of your faith - they ignored you completely.
2/ Extreme behaviour (on both sides) - like delivering leaflets (what the..), holding courses on how to stop such and such a cult and in an extreme example Waco where the govt. and the 'cultists' all did pretty stupid things.
3/ No chance of unifying.

I try to stay away from identifying any particular religion as sick and wrong - mind you those athiests...

greendawn

It is natural that the JW "christianity" will be considered fake since the vast majority of dubs do not believe that they receive the Grace of the Holy Spirit and that they are members of the body of Christ. So what's the point of being called christian?

As for all christian religions being cults that's a sweeping generalisation no organisation is saintly but the real cults have a certain character that's truly destructive for their members as they place them under intense psychological pressure and tight control eg an orthodox will never be thought of as an apostate criminal and get thrown out (excommunicated) for criticising his church.

Qcmbr

Hi Greendawn - I can make sweeping statements like christianity is a cult because on every indicator of cult behaviour christianity, indeed any religion will register:

Let's look at this clearly.

First and foremost modern christianity is very dissimilar to the Christianity of the Jewish people at Jesus time let's not kid ourselves that our culture, language and interpretation of the bible can recreate the Jewish cult of christianity 2000 years ago. If you went back in time and appeared in a christian gathering in 70 AD I'll bet any money you wouldn't recognise the christians then (you'd consider them apostates by your current view of Christianity) and guess what - they'd probably think you were apostate as well and you'd be cut out of the congregation sharpish. If any christian lives under the mistaken belief that the old world Christians are the same as us then its just plain wrong. Just as modern day christians can't agree with each other so it is historically - all modern days christians feel that the old world christians would look upon their current version as the truth - we ALL quote Moses, Paul and Abraham as though that particular prophet / teacher was part of our congregation and would approve of our interpretation.

So having established that christianity is a wide and diverse set of beliefs through time as well as worldwide we have to ask ourselves when christianity stopped being the Jewish cult of Jesus' day.

1/ When Rome took over? When conversion was often done at the point of a sword?
2/ During the crusades? When conversion was often done at the point of a sword?
3/ Inquisition? That time of great Christian purity? Conversion done on the rack.
4/ During the reformation? When conversion was often done at the point of a gun/sword?
5/ Pilgrims? Fleeing christian persecution and then stealing the Indians land? Witch trials?
6/ During the Millerite / Methodist revivalism? When the current plethora of churches really began to multiply and replenish the earth.
7/ The born again revolution of the last hundred years? Southern baptist moderation and teleevangelism.

Christianity always works/worked upon several key points:

1/ An unseen reward requiring adherance to a system of standards(before the liberal BAs disagree remember you go to church/pray/worship as much as I do)
2/ Fear of eternal punishment (though modern day theology has watered this down apparently without God asking them to)
3/ Rejection of backsliders, apostates and the unrepentant - so providing coercion to remain in the group.
4/ Lovebombing and conversion techniques - Every church does it.
5/ Attempts to alter the way we think by meditation, singing, repetion, narrowed reading lists, regular lessons on how to think and behave.
6/ Financial commitment - NO church operates for free. Time, talents and above all money are required from any congregation.
7/ Charismatic Leaders - Jesus (if anyone wishes to argue)

Does anyone want to really suggest that christianity isn't a cult?

jgnat

Qcmbr, on the scales I am working with, it is the degree of control required by the members. I can enter and leave many different churches without a challenge. Not so the JW's.

Qcmbr

Hi JGnat - I agree totally that there are characteristics of christian sects that are more destructive than others (JW shunning for example) - I just like to level the 'cult' playing field - it's a dangerous word.

Cult Comparison Chart

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