Hello AlmostAtheist
Yes, you understand the point precisely. Thank you!
If 'Intelligent Design" Is True, Why So Many Lies?
by Nate Merit 47 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Nate Merit
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Nate Merit
Hello JSTALIN
Yes, you too understand the post perfectly. I also agree with you, and have my own particular ideas about the Invisible Pink Unicorn (may her hooves never be shod!) having created the universe at 9 AM yesterday morning with the APPEARANCE of great age as well as with all our false memories intact.
I would like to see a fundy disprove me, since it is IMPOSSIBLE to disprove.
I also have a giant teapot orbiting a planet in the alpha centauri system. If you believe in my teapot it will shower you with blessings. If you don't believe, it will scald you eternally with hot tea in the next life.
Nate -
Nate Merit
Her name is Yvonne.
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jula71
I got the point, who didn't. To state that "creationism" is religiously backed goes without saying. The same be said about the roots of evolution and atheists. My point was, no matter which side of the issue you fall on, there will have to be a measure of dishonesty due to the fact that nether side can be 100% proven.
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VM44
Nathan wrote: "These matters need deep consultations with Men of Mystery."
"Men of Mystery'? Those must be the "Celebrated Watchtower Scholars" that scholar mentions!
--VM44
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Nate Merit
Hi Jula17
I don't think that particular response was to you.
When it comes to origins I am merely a well-informed layman. However, from the materials I've read, I fail to see any deception emanating from the scientific community on the subject of origins.
I do occasionally find a magazine article here and there written by a biologist for laypeople who goes too far and states things that cannot be absolutely proven, but it's pretty rare. In materials written by scientists for scientists I have never found anything of this nature.
Nate -
Nate Merit
Hi VM44
Yea and verily, the Men of Mystery are the GB of the WTBTS!
Jeez, can you believe that at one time we actually let those old fools do our thinking for us???
I have an excuse. Hormones got me involved.
Nate -
Nate Merit
Hello Qcmbr
You wrote:
"There are some extraordinary things in the recent history of mankind that are hard to explain by simple brute force (the pyramids, alignments of ancient mega cities, Nazca lines etc..) all designed by intelligence but hard to understand how they were made (the available technology doesn't seem to match) - there is so much we don't know that to dismiss any intelligence other than our own is something I would hope scientists don't do - verbally closing doors on possibilities is not scientific. Sometimes its OK to say - 'I don't know but if I ever find out I'll tell you.' Currently we seem to have a lot of unscientific rhetoric and bluster ending in personal attacks on 'fundy's', 'idiots', 'the unenlightened', 'fools' etc.."
Are you thoroughly trained in a scientific discipline Qcmbr? If so, you know how impossible it is to convincingly and adequately explain your disciple to those ignorant of it. Unless they are willing to sit still for hours on end and LEARN, the task is impossible. So too when scientists of various disciplines related to origins are put on the spot by those uninformed. Our culture has been dumbed down to the point it is nearly impossible to get anyone to actually do any CRITICAL THINKING and LEARNING. Americans, especially, want sound-bytes.
Fundies are able to quote biblical verses that give simple-minded answers to the questions of origins. Laypeople expect the same simplistic answers from the scientific community. It isn't going to happen because it isn't possible. Scientists do not have Professor Peabodies Big Book of Scientific Proof and Social Etiquette. There is no Book, Chapeter, Verse to cite, but that is what John and Jane Q Fundy expect.
The sad truth is that Americans are not very well educated, and that is why 60% of Americans believe the Genesis allegory/story is literal science and history. Americans loathe critical thinking and subjects that are difficult. Keeping people ignorant and superstitious plays right into the hands of TPTB, because it makes Americans easy to lead into stupid wars and anything else TPTB (The Powers That Be) wishes to lead superstitious ill-thinking Americans into.
Higher education does not crank out good little mindless patriots, generally speaking. Higher education tends to cure one of such childish ways. So, it's "good" from the Gummints perspective to keep the citizens as credulous and believing and trusting as possible.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!
Nate -
Qcmbr
Hi Nate, I disagree with pretty much all you just said but we'll say no more on that I'm not in an argumentative mood tonight.
I'm a fundamentalist and I don't consider myself uneducated, I'm a believer and I also love science, I know enough to know I'm only scratching the surface of most knowledge and that everyone else is in the same boat as me, I'm arrogant enough to believe I'm right a lot of the time and wise enough to see a similar arrogance in others, I want to be right but quite often I'm too lazy to back up my stance but above all I know that I am unique and that I'm conscious - no one with all the facts, figures, books, speeches, overhead projector slides or bookish rhetoric in the world will ever convince me that life, especially my own existence is anything less glorious and majestic than that promised in the bible. You want to be slime fair enough, I want to be a son of God. Even if you scour the universe and empty it of all its magic, pink unicorns and gods I'll live my dream and if you want to call me stupid or idiot go ahead. I know what happened between God and I 15 odd years ago I can't deny it, wouldn't want to. I try not to preach too much and apolgise for crossing the line every now and then but I can only share what I am and have. -
Nate Merit
Hi Qcmbr
You wrote:
all I know [is] that I am unique
(Just as the billions of the rest of us are 'unique.' Or are your REALLY 'unique'?)
and that I'm conscious -
(Who called into question your consciousness? Science? Please explain what prompted this comment. Thank you)
no one with all the facts, figures, books, speeches, overhead projector slides or bookish rhetoric in the world will ever convince me that life, especially my own existence is anything less glorious and majestic than that promised in the bible.
(Exactly. You and every other Fundamentalist has your mind made up, don't confuse you with the facts. Your comment is entertaining. You openly acknowledge that your mind is closed to facts. You appear to revel in that, as if it is something to be proud of, rather than something to be ashamed of. Tell me, why cannot you be glorious and have evolved as the rest of us did? I feel really good about myself. Well, there really isn't a lot one can say to someone who revels in their closed-mindedness and ignorance, preferring a fable to facts)
You want to be slime fair enough.
(If you want to be dirt, fair enough. You are DIRT. My my, you certainly are touchy. I don't recall any scientific text or journal telling me I am slime. I must have missed that issue. Perhaps this is your verbal method of prejudicing your readers against evolution and revealing your own? Evolution does not tell us we are slime. However, the Bible DOES tell you YOU ARE DIRT. For myself, I really enjoy knowing that I am Starstuff!)
(I want to be a son of Bill Gates. Drat. I'm not his son. Your comment again puzzles me. All of my Christian and Jewish friends (none of whom are fundamentalists) are Theistic Evolutionists, and they know they are not slime, and they know they are Children of God. No one is stopping you from believing you are a Son of God. You have biblical-literalism mixed up in your mind as somehow the correct way to interpret it. I would direct you to the NT writers and the writings of the early church fathers to put that mistaken notion to bed. Qcmbr, you ARE a Son of God and no one can take that from you. It's who you are. It's who I am)
Even if you scour the universe and empty it of all its magic, pink unicorns and gods I'll live my dream
(You prefer a fantasy to reality. How sad. I mean it. That is sad. For an adult to feel that way is sad. Science will continue to march on, and continue to explain the magic, not make it go away. I would not be alive if it weren't for science...I was created in a lab by 12...kidding. I almost died of asthma in infancy and only an experimental drug saved my life. So I'm partial to science, thank you very much. Perhaps you should read more about the actual brutal conditions humans endured in 'the good old days' before science. How much ignorance and superstition is acceptable? How far back do we turn the clock before the ignorance and superstition become too great and the darkness too thick? By all means, live your 'dream' your illusion, your fantasy. Just don't try to pass it off as 'science' and try to force it to be taught in public schools, okay? Could you tell your militant creationist community that? Thanks.)
and if you want to call me stupid or idiot go ahead.
(Stupid and idiotic you are not, and I know it as well as you. You've made this clear it's not a matter of intelligence or even education. You have enough of both to see Reality. No, this is a matter of the Will, of a will to reject harsh truth for a comforting fantasy. I am at least somewhat in sympathy since I continue to accept the reality of a Transcendent First Cause, as well as accept the evidence for life after death. I am not certain of it, but I lean in that direction)
(I also have experienced, many times, the transcendent love of That which we tag the sound "God' to. It's just a word, a sound. It has no meaning apart from the limited meaning we give it. Don't circumscribe 'God" by words and concepts. As a mystic, I would advise you to revel in the experience, but not circumscribe it with words and limited concepts. As a modern educated rational being, I would advise you to let go of a literal Bible and wade out into The Deep. Compare the quaint little domed world of the Bible with the incomprehensibly gigantic and fascinating Cosmos we actually inhabit and know about because of science. Give me the glorious Reality over the quaint little story from ages ago. Your god is too small)
All the best to you Q.
Nate