I need help! I'm losing my wife!

by indireneed 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  CPiolo

  indireneed:

  I know what you're going through, and it isn't at all easy. My wife returned to JWs after we were married. She had been out for many years, but when faced with some emotionally stressful events in her life, she returned. Our marriage has suffered since. The large amount of time necessary to attend meetings, assemblies, conventions, and proselytize takes her away from our relationship. All relationships require work and time to do the work. It's no wonder the relationships of JWs and their un-believing "worldly" mates suffer. Oftentimes as well the unbeliever feels alienated, alone, angry, frustrated, helpless, depressed, rejected, an object of religious bigotry and more. I know; I've felt all of these things.

  There are a few things you should do. Arm yourself with knowledge -- knowledge of JWs, of cults or high-control groups who use mind control to manipulate and indoctrinate people, and how to effectively approach a person being influenced in such a way. I would suggest you start with Steven Hassan's book Releasing the Bondshttp://www.freedomofmind.com/. There are also some excellent resources on the site. Secondly, take care of yourself. If you fall prey to negative emotions and depression, you will not be able to make any headway with your wife and improve your relationship.

  Kathy said:
  

  He'd listen, and then he'd sometimes try the humiliation trick...

  
  I would strongly disagree with this approach. Oftentimes those most succeptible to being indoctrinated already suffer from low self-esteem. Their self-esteem needs boosting. The last thing they need is to be humiliated and brought down even further. This could easily backfire and your wife could withdraw even further into the group. Francois' suggested book The True Believer by Eric Hoffer goes into the emotional and psychological make-up of a "true believer" in great detail.

  MegaDude said to tell your wife how much you love her, but then followed up by suggesting you give her an ultimatum. The first part of this is sound advice. You need to demonstrate your love for your wife as much as possible. If your angry, frustrated, and/or depressed, this may be difficult. But it is necessary. As many have already pointed out, your wife is looking for an emotional boost. If you can provide this (compliment her on her appearance, her cooking, etc,, tell her you love her, and so forth), the JWs won't have such a stronghold on her. The ultimatum about leaving may backfire, firstly, if you're not serious about it, and secondly, it will hinder any inroads you may make towards extracting your wife from the group and play right into their hands.

  You also need to help you wife to think for herself, and expose her to information in a non-threatening way. Hassan's bood deals with this. There is also an excellent article on the freeminds site about how a former JW elder extracted his family http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm. He posts here often.

  More than anything, you're going to need patience. This is a long process. You've got to be in it for the long run.

  I wish you the best of luck,

  CPiolo
• 

  larc

  CP,

  I think the idea of giving an ultimatume is a bad one. Besides reading about JWs, I think it would be a good idea to read a book on Techniques of Negotiating. One of the rules is to always allow the person a face saving line of retreat. Ultimatums should only be used as a last resort.

  One thing I would do is to plan fun events in the evenings and on weekends, so the wife can see the contrast between the wholesome fun with her husband and the boring activities that make up the rest of her life. I think most spouses make the mistake of withdrawing from the other due to frustation over the time away from home of the believing spouse. This natural reaction simply makes matters worse.
• 

  dedalus

  Here is a link for ordering Crisis of Conscience, which you should read, even if you can't get your wife to read it.

  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0914675044/qid=998070601/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/104-6201881-8465505

  Keep us posted.

  Dedalus
• 

  CPiolo

  larc:

  I agree that giving ultimatums is a bad idea and should only be used as a last resort. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I like your suggestions regarding negociation and freetime activities. I have been planning on researching the art of negotiation. You've given me the prod I needed. It's one of my weak spots.

  Of topic, I've enjoyed your post regarding freewill vs. determinism.

  Thanks,

  CPiolo
• 

  CPiolo

  Let me add that I believe ultimatums are bad because they are aggressive, hostile, confrontational and contentious. Certainly, this isn't the best atmosphere to approach someone or negotiate (a little love, kindness and compassion can work wonders). It puts a person's back against the wall, often producing the fight or flight response. Either way someone's bound to lose.

  CPiolo
• 

  MegaDude

  My post may have been misunderstood on the subject of making an ultimatum. I believe this should be done in all sincerity and love.
  But then again, it depends on what you're willing to live with.
  Of course, many factors are involved, the relationship, are there children, et cetera. First, are you willing to live with your wife who is a JW when you are not? I don't know a single happy marriage where one mate is a JW and the other is not. That's not to say it couldn't work or that that situation doesn't exist. The question is, do you want to be married to someone in a cult like that. If the answer is no, then you would be doing your wife and yourself a favor by telling her you will be getting divorced if she becomes a JW.

  But the TIMING is important. When I said make sure your wife understands how you feel about her, I meant do that first. Over the course of time (days, weeks, etc) share with her how you feel about her, the information about the real truth of the Watchtower. I did not mean that you should rush out and give her an ultimatum that you'll divorce her right this minute unless she ceases her JW involvement. You'll know when to do it.

  If you have made the decision you will not stay in a marriage where your wife is a JW, you should tell her. Someone I know did this, but let me add that their relationship was close and strong. If your relationship is strained or has been troubled, it may be just another symptom of a marriage that is in trouble. If you are unsure about how you would feel being married to a JW, then by all means don't give your wife an ultimatum. The real question is, how well do you know yourself.

  In my own situation, I hung in there in my marriage for years. I left the JWs and my wife stayed in. We moved away to another city.
  I quietly began attending another church after not attending a kingdom hall for two years. She reported me to the elders of her congregation and, for the sake of the marriage and to be above board, I told them everything I was doing (attending church, reading anti-Watchtower literature, talking with Ray Franz)
  The elders decided to leave me alone since I wasn't attending meetings. We did the marriage counseling thing with a Witness-friendly therapist. However, my wife switched congregations and felt compelled to report me again. This resulted in a disassociate or we'll disfellowship you offer. I decided to burn all my Watchtower bridges and I disassociated. Then I asked my wife to leave. We divorced later. As difficult as that decision was, it was the best one. I loved my wife dearly. I did not want to divorce. I wanted to save the marriage. But it is impossible to have a happy marriage, an intimate and close relationship with a person who views you as an apostate, whose family you can never speak to because they shun you, and not being able to have shared friends. Still, I know others that have hung in there, but they are miserable.

  Take all the advice here with a grain of salt. I wish you the best of luck in saving your wife from the clutches of the Watchtower.

  sign me...

  Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
• 

  CPiolo

  MegaDude:

  Thanks for clearing up what you meant. I too know of almost no JW/non-JW marriages that are happy, but my sample is small and mostly made of people I've met on discussion boards such as this, made up of people who for one reason or another have an issue with the WT. Those with happy marriages probably don't visit sites like this. An infrequent DFed poster here, Cygnus, is happily married to his JW wife.

  What you describe as an untimatum is more doesn't seem so much an ultimatum to me, or an ultimatum of a different kind. I guess that why it's important to define the words we use. What you're talking about is if you can't live with a JW, be honest about it with that person. larc might be able to help out here, but I think in the social sciences that there is another term for this. I read something about this while browsing through a book not long ago, but can't remember how they described this. It's just a statement of what you need (the conditions) to be married. Of course, much depends on how and when you make such a statement.

  To stay or not stay in a marriage where there are such large differences in one's personal perspective about life and how it should be led is a difficult and very personal decision. All marriages, no matter how strong, have their ups and downs. If one is absolutely miserable, leaving could be the best thing for all involved -- husband, wife, and any children, who almost always perceive difficulties between their parents, even if they are unable to articulate them. Professional counseling is, in my opinion, a wise course to follow before making such a decision.

  My own situation is a difficult one for me. But much of that has to do with my own personality and values. I often fail at those things I suggested to indireneed. It's a constant battle complicated by other factors in my personal circumstances.

  You were certainly right to suggest taking your advice with a grain of salt. I've often suggested that. To glean what one can from the various posters, seek professional help, and then do what your conscience tells you to do. With a few exceptions, the vast majority here are not mental health professionals, and even if we were, this isn't the forum to treat or counsel someone professionally. What we share commonly is our various involvement or contact with the WTB&TS. Hopefully, whatever experience or insight we have because of this may help others in similar circumstances.

  CPiolo