US Marines ... Requested by the French Government (page 2)

thom

Here is balance !!!!! they do not want to be part of the rest of the world, if you visit France you find they hate Americans. They tell you that to your very face. Go there one time and you'll never go back. They need to know that they are part of the WORLD and not above the world. They do not tolorate disversity. That is why the Blacks and other minority's are burning the country

I've been to France quite a few times. Seeing how other Americans present themselves in Paris and I can see why we would be looked down on. In many countries I've traveled to, I've seen Americans basically acting like a$$es. But spend a little time treating people with some respect, show an interest in their culture and language, and you will usually get along fine.

I do find the French to have a strong desire to retain their culture. I think it would be very sad to see French culture swallowed up by the rest of the world. I agree that the French may think more highly of themselves than is realistic, but don't Americans and other countries do the same?

"The do not tolerate diversity." Uh, can't argue with you there.

skyman

Pleasuredome your post say's it all. All of us need to raise up out of the quagmire.

SixofNine

The French didn't make me feel unwelcome, but then again, I didn't go to France carrying the mental baggage of stupid American meme's.

outnfree

Ohmigosh, skyman! You cannot be serious!!!!! (At least I know hill is "reporting" 'tongue in cheek'!)

The French do NOT hate Americans. The French DO think differently than Americans, and mistrust our patriotism because to them it could lead to nationalism which is a short step away from the fascism that they endured (and Vichy imposed) during WWII. I have been to France several times and have never encountered a shred of personal hatred because I am American. The French loudly and passionately debate politics all the time -- which is something that makes most Americans uncomfortable. You know -- politics being one of those things, along with religion and death, that just isn't discussed in polite American society because it leads to bad blood. The cultural difference is that a Frenchman can attack another's religion or politics and still be best of friends after the stimulating debate is over.

Most African countries are old French colonies. The French Constitution of 1958 created the Fifth Republic as well as the "Communaute francaise." Each former colony was asked by then President de Gaulle to choose, by popular referendum, to join the Community. Only Guinea refused. In 1961 the French people voted "yes" to a referendum to grant independence for Algiers, after a particularly nasty civil war, as well as making Algerian citizens (former colonials) FULL citizens of France in 1962. While the Community ceased to exist in the 1960's as other colonies became independent, most today are part of the "Organisation Internationale de la Francophonie" which is a group of 56 French-speaking countries who reap the benefits of technical assistance, financial aid, and military protection from France.

The current situation in France has been festering a long time. Culturally, of course, the Algierians were Muslim and the French largely Catholic, and integration has not taken place as speedily as one might have hoped (of course, racial profiling doesn't exist HERE, does it? ). The banlieux are like "the projects" in many American cities -- poor, hopeless, with their citizens feeling there is no way out to a better life.

And yet, there exist so many dissatisfied second generation immigrant families precisely because, of all the countries of Europe, France has historically had an open immigration policy. This open policy tightened up considerably in the 1970s, when the recession hit and rising unemployment caused France's borders to be closed to non-European immigrants in 1975. Nonetheless, illegal immigrants continued to make their way into France. In 1977, President Giscard d'Estaing's centrist government offered an incentive of 10,000 French francs to an foreigner who would agree to permanently return to his or her country of origin. It met with little success.

Many French are concerned by the large number of immigrants, whom they see as invaders. Factors such as high unemployment, the impression that one is not safe in the big cities, and a general distrust of things Muslim, profoundly influenced French attitudes towards its Arab immigrants, and the 80's saw an increase in racism and xenophobia. This backlash led to the rise in power of the extreme right-wing National Front party led by Jean-Marie Le Pen.

In the 1999 census, there were 4.3 million immigrants in France. Of those 3 million are foreigners and 1.3 million French citizens from countries outside of France. At that time, these immigrants represented 8% of the French population and 16% of the population of the Ile-de-France Region. Low-paid French laborers feel threatend by these immigrants who are willing to take the lowest paying jobs in France. But is is the second generation immigrants who have the identity crisis which has led to the current unrest. Some desire to be accepted as truly French, but despair because they are not, and others proudly cling to their cultural differences. They are lost in a Neverland where they feel neither French nor Arab.

Among the 3 million immigrants who are not citizens, there is a debate concerning the right to vote. In some communities, these immigrants make up as much as 30% of the population and pay local taxes, but are excluded from voting in municipal elections. Paradoxically, the European Parliment already approved a law in 1989 that permits European immigrants from other countries within the European Union to vote in municipal elections, while immigrants who come from non-member countries are excluded from voting in those same elections. At the moment in France, a foreigner must become a naturalized citizen before being permitted to vote. The thing that most upsets the French vis-a-vis immigrants is their refusal to adopt the values of their host country. The French have a fierce desire to keep their country culturally "pure." Hence, the establishment of the Alliance francaise which rules on the correct usage of the French language (in 1883), and the "Toubon Law", passed in 1994, which forbids the use of English words in all administrative documents and public advertisements (to counter the Anglo-Saxon influence and American cultural imperialism), to cite just two examples.

For many Frenchmen, the model is the republican ideal which looks for assimilation, for integration. This ideal is a recognized right under law, but is not always recognized in practice.

Up until the recent riots, I could have agreed with the authors of a textbook I have used as a source for some of the facts in this post when they said: "Despite the difficulties, immigrants and especially the children of these immigrants have been integrated into French society better than one might think." While it is true that the French Republic continues to absorb immigrants and is more or les respectful of cultural differences, it is also true that racism is still present. According to a 2003 poll in the magazine Marianne, 23% of the French dislike Arabs, compared to 10% who dislike Jews. A "Sofres" poll for the same year revealed a distrust among 89% of the French towards Arabs, of 37% towards Blacks and of 10% towards Jews. Obviously, the sentiments haven't changed much and the young people are fed up.

Too sad. And VERY complex.

DISCLAIMER: This historical background information has been supplied in the hopes of breaking down yet OTHER cultural stereotypes which tend to alienate humans from one another instead of reminding us of our common humanity.

Source: La France contemporaine, Third Edition, William F. Edmiston and Annie Dumeil. (Freely translated by outnfree)

chirac

THANK YOU OUTNFREE

VERY FEW FRENCH ARE ABLE TO EXPLAIN WHAT S HAPPENING

IT WILL NOT BE EASY TO FIND THE SOLUTION OF THESE PROBLEMS

YOUR SUM UP IS VERY CLEAR

EXCUSE MY POOR ENGLISH

CHIRAC FROM FRANCE...OF COURSE

Simon

It shows what a poor / short memory *some* American have ... without the support it received from France America would still be a British colony (and my god, we wouldn't have let it slide like it has )

Narkissos

I didn't want to reply to this thread but I just have to thank Outnfree , wave to Six and welcome chirac

troucul

j'ai glisse dans mes sous-vetements...

Jourles

without the support it received from France, America would still be a British colony

Now if we were to compare this to an older WT article, a JW would say that you are just dragging up something from waaay back in the past that is not relevant today.

Most Americans tend to forget this small tidbit of history. And if you bring it up in 2005, they would say, "That was a couple hundred years ago! It's totally different now!" One year, two hundred years. What difference does it make? If it wasn't for the French, "America" would be ruled by a queen today. (in any case, anyone would be better than the "king" we currently have)

Personally, I would never throw out my good French wine for nothing. Not even if the USA and France went to war against each other. The people who did that were dumb.

US Marines ... Requested by the French Government

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