I need help refuting a very common and stupid jw argument

by Check_Your_Premises 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    "If you participate in activity X it will leave less time for spiritual activities"

    This I think is a false "or" type of fallacy. As if our choices are a matter of choosing between non-spiritual or spiritual activities exclusively. Can't we glorify the Lord in all our activities? Aren't we given talents for a reason? Shouldn't we develop them with our Creator's glory and not our own in mind? Do our activities have to meet a schedule? Can't we move our "spiritual" activities around to accomodate our "worldy" activities?

    Is our spirituality ONLY developed when we participate in organization defined activities? Of course a Christian benefits from association with other believers, but we were only admonished by Paul not to "forsake" these associations. For all you jw's out there, the word forsake means "to give up entirely". Forsake does not mean missing one of five meetings.

    Another tack might be argumentum ad absurdum (or something like that, I don't speak Latin). The idea here, is that you could argue that since the wt presents our choices as strictly between spiritual, and non-spiritual, shouldn't we be reading, studying, going out in service, attending meetings all times when we are not eating, sleeping, or earning a living!!! Don't want to get killed at Armageddon!!! I would love to see my 12yr old keep that up.

    Background FYI, this comes up because I am trying to make sure my kids don't get only the wt version of a university education. What a bunch of crap that was!!! I think all ubm's have to make sure to present a quick alternative view to their children anytime there is something stated that we don't agree with, or are not convinced is true. Help 'em out! Give them a different perspective!

    CYP

  • jstalin
    jstalin


    I would say something like this: "Why would god give you talents if he didn't want you to use them? Maybe getting an education will allow you to interact with and encounter people who you wouldn't have otherwise."

  • coolhandluke
    coolhandluke

    Do all things as if doing them for The Lawd. I cannot remember the exact drivel, but you get the basic point.

  • daystar
    daystar

    I think one might begin by defining "spiritual activities" as you hinted. A JW might assume that "spiritual activities" are only going to meetings, going out in service, studying for the meetings, giving talks... But a person who is truly spiritual (IMO) sees the spiritual in all things.

    As you said, something like "Can't we glorify the Lord in all our activities? Aren't we given talents for a reason? Shouldn't we develop them with our Creator's glory and not our own in mind?"

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Get off that damn toilet!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop shopping for food!!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop spending time paying your bills!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop sleeping!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop eating!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop going to work!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop going to the doctor!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop changing that light bulb!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

    Stop putting gas in your car!!! It takes away from spiritual activities!!!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    How about this:

    JW's aren't Gnostics , are they, who separate the holy from the profane? We honor God by our daily activity in this world.

    1 Cor 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

    Ecclesiatetes 10:24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God, 25 for without him, who can eat or find enjoyment?

  • carla
    carla

    How to make sure kids don't get the whacked out version of life from a jw? never leave them alone with one! I can count the times I have left them alone with him in the past YEARS. Not easy to do but, I will not allow him to mess with their heads ever. The few times they were alone with him were in circumstances I had no control of. Once was an hour car ride, then a 20 minute car ride and a few others where I couldn't change the circumstances. Some may think it unfair but, how could you read all the mental anguish stories and not do the same? I am a bit more relaxed now as the kids know it's all b.s. and I don't worry as much. He also has not tried to indoctrinate them in a long while. It will not happen to my children! I would truly have to be dead first.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    I like Else's answer, might get them thinking. Clearly some things are necessary even though they don't directly contribute to the Big J's bottom line. Education is certainly one of them.

    Dave

  • Mary
    Mary

    • Nowhere in the bible does it say you shouldn't get an education.
    • Nowhere in the bible does it say that Christians have to attend 5 meetings a week (the first century Christians certainly never did)
    • Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to go out knocking on strangers' doors Saturday morning and then record the number of hours you do this.
  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises
    How to make sure kids don't get the whacked out version of life from a jw? never leave them alone with one!

    Yes, I wish I would have been smart enough to set very strict boundaries the moment my wife took interest in the jw life. Unfortunately I didn't. My oldest daughter is pretty brainwashed now, and kind of views me like a child views an alcoholic father. My wife poo-poos this view, and insists that she views us both in a negative light because of her age. Right. I wonder how much time she spends praying my wife will get right with Jah.

    So now I am trying to re-establish these boundaries, while not losing trust with my daughter or wife's cult personalities.

    Not an easy needle to thread.

    CYP

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