What Would It Take

by NestleBoy 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • NestleBoy
    NestleBoy

    A few months back I remembered a newbie asked in this forum what would it take for a current Witness to "go over the edge". In other words what would it take, personally as a witness, to stop going to meetings – or to just quit being a JW? What would you have to learn or see? Of course the person who posed this question never got the adequate answer he/she was looking for. No "good" / faithful witness would ever really visit a site like this. Of course only ex-jw's answered and responded.

    I've been a Witness and baptized since 1992 – I still am. I first visited this site over a year ago and have been reading it off & on since then. (In my opinion it's always good to see what "the other side" says -- to be balanced; to know what others currently think of the society & the Witnesses).

    I’m sure this topic has been talked about before but it bears repeating. As you know there are about 8000 or so remnant left here on earth. They are all getting pretty old. What happens when they all die off before Armageddon comes around? Think about it, with all the faithful & discrete slave class (F&DSC) gone, who will we (the "rank & file") turn to? I know the slave class is very old but they still make the final decisions. They still write all publications & literature intended for the Witnesses (with the help of the Writing Dept to edit & publish of course).

    Everyone at the meetings, the elders, the brothers & sisters have been saying we are living in the last days. Even the "last hours" some say. And I can believe that. You can just see that things are getting worse. BUT how do we know that the JW's F&DSC are "THE" ones -- the ones that God has chosen to keep watch over all his belongings? And was 1914 really th year when the Kingdom was established in heaven & the end of the Gentile times? Is anyone up there at all? That has always been open to interpretation & always will. Those are things you can’t prove as factual. Personally I believe what has been said; I want the society to be right. Who wouldn’t want the worldwide peace, free of problems? (I know, I know wanting doesn’t necessarily make it true. That’s my version of faith & hope).

    But here is a FACT that cannot escape anyone’s attention and the KEY POINT. (This is not Bible scripture interpretation or opinion). I can’t see them living here on earth much longer. I guess regular publishers with an earthly hope will have to run the whole thing. All 144,000 can't rule from heaven during this old, wicked system of things. All opposers & apostates will have a field day with this. They will be all gone; no one left to persecute & make fun of. No one to say, “Look at what new rule the annointed came with this time”. We will all be looking around as if in an empty room saying, "Now what?" All 144,000 will be in heaven ruling with Christ over the earth and we STILL will be living in this old wicked system of things? Hmmmm.

    This would be a big shift. The organization/society would have some major explaining to do. The end would not be as close as everyone thought. They are setting themselves up big time. (It’s almost getting to the point of no return). The end will have to come in about 20 yrs or so. “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur". Sound familiar? I know there has been a new explanation & understanding on the term 'generations' that came out in Watchtower a few years back. I guess they are leaving themselves an out so to speak. Maybe the 1914 & 1935 thing is running out of time.

    So the bottom line for me is this: If all the remaining slave class dies off and our yearly report says zero partakers of the emblems worldwide at the Memorial -- that will be the turning point for me. I would wait a very short time for an official explanation. If there's not a satisfactory given explanation I would leave. I know many would leave the organization if there were no more anointed ones left here on earth. The Witnesses are the only ones that claim to have “THE” F&DSC and that we’re living close to the time of the end / 1914.

    (I would still believe in God of course … but this would be a major blunder on the society's part. Think about this, the end will have to come within the next 20 or 30 years or so. No new shed light or new understanding will ever cover for this).

    NestleBoy

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    So the bottom line for me is this: If all the remaining slave class dies off and our yearly report says zero partakers of the emblems worldwide at the Memorial -- that will be the turning point for me. I would wait a very short time for an official explanation. If there's not a satisfactory given explanation I would leave. I know many would leave the organization if there were no more anointed ones left here on earth. The Witnesses are the only ones that claim to have “THE” F&DSC and that we’re living close to the time of the end / 1914.

    However, (I learned to start sentences that way from reading the Watchtower!!) for every awkward circumstance, they've concocted a new 'spin'. Just watch, there'll be 'new light' soon on the F&DS!!

  • Legolas
    Legolas
    However, (I learned to start sentences that way from reading the Watchtower!!) for every awkward circumstance, they've concocted a new 'spin'. Just watch, there'll be 'new light' soon on the F&DS!!

    Ozzie wins the prize!!!!!!

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    N-

    I watched those figures for 40 years as a witness. In the last 15 or more there has been virtually no reduction in those numbers, albeit a couple hundred or so. In fact last year the number actually went up a few.

    If these people were really 'sealed' as the organization stated in 1935 how could this be? If they were all just 18 in 1935 [and why would the Lord have to choose babies younger than that to be kings of His kingdom], they would still be no younger than 88 years old right now.

    Aside from those who fall aside the only 'new annointed' should be those who replace the fallen ones.

    This was the issue that first got my attention, before I dared to look at the internet at all. This number should be dropping like a rock now. The age group in it's 80, 90, 100 years old should be falling by over 10% a year. But it is not. This year 8500. Will it be down to 7650? No way. My bet - the number will be the same or about.

    Someone is doctoring the numbers, or they just plain are wrong. You will not see it fall to zero partakers - the bethel power brokers will not let it happen. IMO. You can write a fairy tale anyway you want it to end, I am afraid. And Brooklyn is writing the tale, my friend.

    Welcome to the forum. Look. listen, and learn. These are good people.

    Jeff

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    As you know there are about 8000 or so remnant left here on earth. They are all getting pretty old. What happens when they all die off before Armageddon comes around?

    Since you state that you became a Witness in 1992, you probably don't realize that to older JW's this number is erroneous. Basically, it was stated that all the 144,000 group had been picked by 1914...there was thought to be a secondary group that would be saved but not be in that group. When, that came and went, adjustments were needed...it was thought that some of that group that proved unworthy had to be replaced and that was done by early 1930's. When I was growing up in this religion, it was thought that if someone new started partaking, well, that was probably a mistake...If a young person partook, everyone was talking behind his/her back and feeling sorry that somehow they just didn't understand they were NOT of the annointed class. The number of 144.000 had dropped to just a few thousand by the 1980's(?)...and had us all believing that it was all but over...(at least those of us who stayed on after the 1975 letdown) We were down to the last few seconds in this world. Now that figure is back up to 8000??? How long can they keep this up??? Trust me, most of those partaking now are not that old!!!

    I would like to say here that I took a long hard look at what the Bible does say about annointing and I don't see (now that I read without the JW's slant) how in the world they came up with that understanding. Try reading the Bible without using the publications for a little while...it's absolutely amazing what it says verses what they say it says!

    I kind of gave a brief history without looking up the dates, but I think I'm close enough to at least help you see how they keep changing the "light" and dangling that carrot out there.

    Swalker

  • telltruth
    telltruth

    the gb has recently replaced two of its "annointed " with men in their 50's. not even alive in 35' there will no doubt be some new light. but are you really going to wait 20-30yrs until you make up your mind? you sound as if you already know this is wrong.......telltruth

  • Cellist
    Cellist

    Welcome to JWD (or should I say, to posting on JWD), Nestleboy.

    They're going to have to start disfellowshipping to get rid of the "anointed". Many partakers are quite young. I know that the younger ones aren't generally considered genuine. But they're still there, and as far as I can see they make up the majority of the 8000 count. It's an urban myth that they're all old and ready to die.

    And as far as them coming up with a "good spin", they're masters at covering over their mistakes. Their audience is very receptive to their "spins", because, like yourself, they want to believe.

    I don't believe there is one point that would drive people out of the WTS. For everyone it's something different that finally breaks through the fog.

    Cellist

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    WElcome to the forum NestleBoy ....

    (just noticed it was his first post)

    -ithinkisee

  • NestleBoy
    NestleBoy
    Someone is doctoring the numbers, or they just plain are wrong. You will not see it fall to zero partakers - the bethel power brokers will not let it happen. IMO. You can write a fairy tale anyway you want it to end, I am afraid. And Brooklyn is writing the tale, my friend.
    I would like to say here that I took a long hard look at what the Bible does say about annointing and I don't see (now that I read without the JW's slant) how in the world they came up with that understanding; Try reading the Bible without using the publications for a little while...it's absolutely amazing what it says verses what they say it says!

    You both have made some good points Jeff and SWALKER. I know I'm not the only JW looking at those numbers.

    And no I don't know if this is wrong "telltruth". But I am certainly thinking more then I used to. I'm not of afraid of thinking critically anymore.

    NestleBoy

  • Legolas
    Legolas

    I forgot to say ....Welcome to the board!!!!!!

    You will learn much and meet many good people here!

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