Elder-speak....How do they manipulate us? (page 3)

stevenyc

After ripping some JW based bible commentary apart, there's always that smug, final comment: 'As in the days of Noah, the people were laughing and mocking, until the flood came and took them all away' (or something like that)

steve

jgnat

Wow. This is really good. I'm thinking of organizing the one-liners under their major manipulative type. By each question I'll give a response, perhaps a column also for scripture references. Some of your answers are really awesome. Even if you don't come back with the perfect comeback, knowing how you are being manipulated inoculates you from it's effects. You will have a lot less trouble walking away without answering the Elder's interrogation. I really like these:

One man in a tin hut.

The truth does not stumble

Attack.
You have a problem, brother.	Is my problem that you're unloving?	Scriptures?
Did you get this information off the internet?	Answer?	Scriptures?
Why do you always point to negative things? You used to be such a positive person.	Answer?	Scriptures?
Selective bible quotes like: They were not of our sort and went out from us. Are you not of our sort?	If I take out the trash, am I not of your sort? No? Just because someone leaves does not mean they are no longer part of us, right? We have to ask ourselves, WHY are they leaving?	Scriptures?
Deflect
We don't know what your situation is, and we don't want to get too personal.	Answer?	Scriptures?

Deal breakers. This is used when the elders have given up trying to turn you and want to establish a good reason not to talk to you any more.Do you still believe that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is Jehovah's representative here on earth in our day?Answer?Scriptures?DelayWait on Jehovah.Why not use this advice on contributions? Jehovah will provide, we don't have to bother.Scriptures?Put it all in the bin.Answer?Scriptures?Why not be like Moses and accept the situation for now, who knows what Jehovah has in store for you?Answer?Scriptures?Increase Cognitive DissonanceYou've invested so much already, it would be a shame to throw it all away.I know, doesn't it all seem wasted? Why go on this way, expecting more of the same?Scriptures?Can you take your stumbling blocks and turn them into stepping stones?Answer?Scriptures?Our kids grew up together.Answer?Scriptures?Instill GuiltEven if you just KNOW about a sin, and you don't notify the Elders of that person's sin, it's as if you committed the sin yourself.Answer?Scriptures?We miss you.We love you.Great! Why don't you give me a call next week and we'll go for coffee.Scriptures?We missed your partner at the meeting.Great! Why don't you give us a call next week and we'll go for coffee.Scriptures?We understand that sometimes it's difficult to express ourselves when we have been accused of committing a sin. Is there anything we can do to help you express your feelings about how this all started?Answer?Scriptures?It's so nice to see you here as a family.Answer?Scriptures?We love you.Answer?Scriptures?What do we tell the brothers?It's not your responsibility to explain to others what my decision is. If they want to know, they can ask me themselves.Scriptures?Is there anything that you feel that you ought to be telling us?Answer?Scriptures?Instill self-doubt.How do you know Jehovah hears your prayers?Why do think Jehovah is listening to your prayers? What's the evidence?Scriptures?You know what you did wrong.Are you talking to me or a mirror?Scriptures?If you're stumbled maybe it's because you want to be stumbled, maybe you're looking for an excuse to slow down.Answer?Scriptures?Instill FearHow do you know Jehovah hears your prayers?Answer?Scriptures?Is your choice worth giving up your life for?Are my choices worth living for?Scriptures?See what happens when you leave Jehovah?Answer?Scriptures?Sometimes you think you can get away with things, but Jehovah sees everything, and it will be much worse for you to be judged by HIMAnswer?Scriptures?Here are some scriptures on Apostacy. You don't want to go apostate, do you? 2 Tim 3 10-14, 2 Tim 2, 2 Tim 1 20-21, 2 Thess 15:2, John 10-11, 1 John 18-19,1 John 17-18, 2 Peter 2.Answer?Scriptures?As in the days of Noah, the people were laughing and mocking, until the flood came and took them all away.(contents 2)Scriptures?Where else will you go?Suppose you are entirely correct. What then? Where will you go?I will figure that out once I know whether or not I am entirely correct. Can you show me that I am not entirely correct?Scriptures?Suppose this isn't Jehovah's Organization. Where will you go??If it isn't, then anywhere else would be preferable. Revelation 18:4-8Suppose this isn't Jehovah's Organization. Which one is?If we are still living in the Great Apostasy, why would there have to be one?Scriptures?So, if this isn't God's Organization, how will you carry out the worldwide preaching work?Hm. I don't know. How was it carried out during the Great Apostasy?Scriptures?So if you don't believe XXX anymore, what do you believe?I believe all of my beliefs should be based on (the Bible/logic). Is that wrong? I also believe I don't have to necessarily tell everyone what I believe. You don't think I should tell everyone what I believe, do you?Scriptures?What other organization has done more for the truth?Answer?Scriptures?Where else will you find such loving,clean people to be with?I did not want a kind of 'social club'. I joined because I thought I had 'the truth', If only one person has the truth in a tin shed somewhere then this is where I would want to be.Scriptures?This is still the best way of life even if there is no paradise.Answer?Scriptures?If this is not Jehovah's organisation then how do you explain the growth?Answer?Scriptures?

Are there other major categories?

IP_SEC

This is still the best way of life even if there is no paradise.

If you leave where would you go?

Both were used on me.

Cellist

Jgnat,

That sounds like a good way to organize it. Just like the "Reasoning" book.

I think you need one more category. I'm not sure what the exact title would be, but the contents would include the things that appeal to the emotions. Emotional blackmail type things. "What do we tell the brothers", "you're missed", etc.

Cellist

Goldminer

If you leave where will you go?

I like this one,it's a fairly easy one to answer.Let's open our bibles and see what the scriptures say.

Matt. 11:28,Jesus said "Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down,and I will refresh you"

John 14:6,Jesus said "I am the way,the truth,the life"

then go to John 6:68 and notice Peter didn't say "where shall we go" he said "whom shall we go to" and then said that only Jesus had the sayings of everlasting life.

Nowhere in theses scriptures are we told to go to the WTS for the sayings of everlasting life.Jesus said come to me,not to the WTS.If the WTS says they are the truth,are they making themselves equal to Jesus? If that is the case then "The Christ exists divided.Paul was not impaled for you,was he?Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1Cor 11:13. Substitute Paul with WTS in this scripture and it becomes clear that the WTS does not have the truth and they weren't the ones referred to when Peter said whom shall we go to.

Goldminer

Cellist

Jgnat,

"What do we tell the brothers?" The answer: 1 Thes 4:11. "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands." NIV This one has been used with success. "We love you" The answer: "That's nice".Or, no answer. Especially if it's very apparently insincere.

Cellist

joanne_

hello there

when I questioned an elder about the blood issue I was told that I needed to attend more meetings, do more personal study and get out in service.

when I told this same elder that I was not happy and on the verge of leaving the organization, he told me I needed to attend more meetings, do more personal study and get out in service more.

There just didnt seem to be any truth left in the 'troof' anymore. I walked.

joanne

hamsterbait

Jgnat - The question re the FDS:

"Oh I have absolutely No doubts about the FDS."

(Don't doubt the flip flops, the whiskey for Da Booze, the UN scandal, Rand Cam, the free hols in Alaska, Greenlees, Sydlyk, connections with spiritism, child abuse issues, they got it wrong about 1873,1874 1914,1915,1917, 1925, 1941 1975, the work ending before 2001)

"Do you have doubts, brother?" Smile with sweet concern.

HB

Blueblades

Hi JGNAT! How about this one." Is there any reason why you cannot accept this assignment?" Asked of those that they are going to appoint in a position of responsibility, such as Pioneer, Ministerial Servant, Elder, Bethelite etc.

That question is the final one after the Body has recommended the person under review. So, if a person has a "Secret Sin", as they like to call it, he / she will refuse the assignment, or, accept it anyway.

Blueblades

DannyHaszard

lying MEALY-MOUTHING Define-mealy mouth Someone who speaks indirectly and bowdlerizes. One who beats around the bush. The opposite of a "mealy mouth" is a "smash mouth", someone who "tells it like it is". Danny Haszard's #1 catch phrase to describe Jehovah's Witnesses rhetoric ----------- Watchtower Whistleblower: Danny Haszard Bangor Maine Jehovah's Witnesses are the'perfect storm' of deception-in a word they are the cult of Innuendo

Elder-speak....How do they manipulate us?

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