Jesus was a liar. (page 3)

stopthepain

The whole bible is filled with hard to believe scenarios,hope and faith are all that is needed to "make"them real.People need something to believe in,and the bible is just the ticket.The bible is as believable as the matrix in my opinion.There are so many concepts with no concrete answers,to think we know is are first mistake.I have seen no evidence of "jehovah"as told by the bible.We where probly put here by aliens!!haha

nicolaou

DD

How do I know that pixies and elves don't live at the bottom of my garden? How do I know that Moonmen aren't plotting to takeover the world from their lunar base? The same way that I know a super-intelligent deity doesn't exist 'up there somewhere'.

If you saw a newborn baby would you conclude [a] that it had a human mum & dad or [b] it had a human mum and a 'spiritual', not of this world, alien, ethereal father who conceived it via some nebulous spirit 'tool' of his?

ICBehindtheCurtain

Very interesting. I made a post about this a few years back - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/29687/381356/post.ashx#381356

anewme

This is not off the topic.

Last night on the telly was a discussion of John Lennon. Our dear John came to a similar conclusion as our dear Nicolaou here. For expressing his views, which I assume are shared by millions of brilliant free thinkers he was targeted and gunned down. Who knows what the world lost at that moment? Someone to break through the stoggy long held belief systems that keep the world in its strife and war torn grip? We need these outspoken ones who use calm reason and logic instead of emotionally charged vengeful religious minds to conduct worldwide business here on the earth in the future.

I say let him explore this line of thinking. Allow Nicolaou to continue to speak freely.
We are all listening.

ICBehindtheCurtain

What can I say Nicolaou? GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!, thanks for that link by the way.

IC

IP_SEC

"[Ananus the high priest] convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ." (Jewish Antiquities, XX, 200)

Hasnt this proven to be an interpolation into Josephus?

nicolaou

Since Jesus claimed to be the son of god, there are just two possibilities:

[1] His claims were true.
[2] His claims were false.

If his claims were false, there are only two possibilities:

[1] He knew his claims were false.
[2] He did not know his claims were false.

If he knew his claims were false he is a liar. He would also be a massive hypocrite because he taught others to live a life of honesty while he lived a lie. This by itself would break the myth that Jesus was a great moral teacher. How could he be if he didn't have the morals to tell the truth?

The other possibility is that Jesus didn't know that his claims were false.

This theory gives me headaches. It doesn't account for the many miracles that Christ claimed [*contrived] to have performed or the many Old Testament prophecies that he appeared [*manipulated] to fulfil. If Jesus really didn't know who he was, he would have had to been mentally deranged but he certainly appeared in full command of his faculties and worked very hard to define exactly who he claimed to be - the Christ.

So I don't see any evidence that Christ was insane and I do not make that allegation against him. So what am I left with if I also reject his being the son of a supernatural being?

*As I suggested earlier, I think Jesus operated in concert with others to accomplish these things.

gumby

6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

How was it possible for all those who walked with god BEFORE CHRIST TIME to "come to the father"? Moses, Noah, Abraham, Enoch.....could not come to the father except through Jesus yet they didn't know the guy. If you say these men knew Jesus......prove it to me.

BTW...had ALL the babies in Jerusalem of the age 2 years and under and been killed by Herod as an attempt to eradicate Jesus, I kinda think Josephus would have jotted it down.

Gumby

ICBehindtheCurtain

Gumby, exactly! There is no historical evidence that Herod killed these children, nothing, nada, zilch, WHY EXACTLY? Because it never happened!

IC

JamesThomas

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"I and the Father are one.”

"I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

"I am the resurrection and the life."

Jesus, may or may not have existed; but it is certain that there is conscious-awarness within you. Could it be that the "I" that is being referred to in these scriptures is not restricted or special to one man, but rather the one reading these words right now? Are these scriptures pointing to a universal truth?

Are we the separate and isolated shard of existence we believe ourselves to be? Or is there, just beneath these unquestioned beliefs, an Identity, an Actuality, an I, that has no beginning and no end?

Perhaps it doesn't matter who was around or not around thousands of years ago or what they said. Perhaps what really matters is realizing what truly looks out these eyes - right now.

alt

j

DannyHaszard

As soon as i saw the thread title,my first instantaneous thought to affirm Jesus lied is his (false)promise about,"he with faith the size of a mustard grain could move a mountain" it has never happened.I was a deep R+D dub since 1957 and at one time memorized over 2,000 scripts verbatim.

This is Danny's simplified 'coming out' conviction If i reject God i am left with organic evolution to explain away creation.If we evolved here,then it happened everywhere and intelligent life out there could be millions or billions of years more advanced (God like) so it's back to God anyway the Bible was written to a simple pastoral people,why the vowel system and the zero hadn't been invented yet.

If there is a Jesus and i am accountable to you come and get me,I have NO fear and feel no need for redemption of any kind.

Jesus was a liar.

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