by nicolaou 123 Replies latest watchtower bible
nic
Just because you haven't seen something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
The same way that I know a super-intelligent deity doesn't exist 'up there somewhere'.
What is that "way"?
The conclusions that someone may come to about a new born would be formed by many factors, like statements by the mother, child or other witnesses.
D Dog
I had always thought that John Lennon had studied with the JW's and the song 'Imagine' was about the New System. I guess that is another urban myth as well.
Poor Nikolau. I didn't think Atheists could get so bitter and twisted. First God is a wicked child abuser, now Jesus is a liar. What next? Why don't u just go join a devil worshipping forum.
Please spare us this obnoxious stuff - it's merely the other end of the spectrum from bible-thumping Jesus fundies .
HI Nicolau,
>A serious study of what Jesus actually said leads a person to one of three conclusions about him: He was either a liar, an insanely deluded madman, or the Messiah, the Son of God. It is ridiculous to simply take the position that he was just 'a good teacher'.
Are you borrowing from C.S. Lewis? ;-)
Rex
Poor Nikolau. I didn't think Atheists could get so bitter and twisted. First God is a wicked child abuser, now Jesus is a liar. What next? Why don't u just go join a devil worshipping forum.
So God didn't tell his people to kill women and children and take girls as sex slaves?
Would be nice if you could actually debate with Nicolau instead of just throwing ad homiems around.
Please spare us this obnoxious stuff - it's merely the other end of the spectrum from bible-thumping Jesus fundies .Hey he did warn you fundies that you might not like what he had to say. So quit complaining.
Ignored _one
Bullseye!
Gumby
JT
You write beautifully and I always enjoy reading your posts but I wonder if sometimes you look for depth and meaning when there is none. Can you not concede that somtimes the universe is just as we perceive it? Why always try to shoehorn an interpretation into a statement or a meaning into a picture? Square peg, round hole and all that. When Jesus said "I am the resurrection and the life" why not simply take him at his word? (and challenge it)
The watchtower clouded my mind for decades by hiding reality behind a myriad of books, magazines and lectures. A billion obfuscating words when just a few short ones would have sufficed. I prefer things to be clear, plain and simple.
DD
You quote only a snippet of my post and, unless I'm mistaken, use it out of context. You asked me "What is that way?", but I had already explained it. If there is no evidence, I have no basis for belief. Wonder? Yes. Suspicions and leanings? Sure. Belief? No.
How do I know that pixies and elves don't live at the bottom of my garden? How do I know that Moonmen aren't plotting to takeover the world from their lunar base? The same way that I know a super-intelligent deity doesn't exist 'up there somewhere'.If you saw a newborn baby would you conclude [a] that it had a human mum & dad or [b] it had a human mum and a 'spiritual', not of this world, alien, ethereal father who conceived it via some nebulous spirit 'tool' of his?[my original post]
Shining One
This argument has been doing the rounds for over 60 years and yes, it was started by Lewis, he calls it the Trilemma. He lived as an atheist until well into his life when he eventually turned to Christianity - weird huh?!
Lewis said that the problem with Jesus is to reconcile two facets of his character - "the almost generally admitted depth and sanity of his moral teaching' and 'the quite appalling nature of the Man's theological remarks." Lewis said these are "claims which, if not true are those of a megalomaniac compared with which Hitler was the most sane and humble of men."
Poor Nikolau. I didn't think Atheists could get so bitter and twisted. First God is a wicked child abuser, now Jesus is a liar. What next? Why don't u just go join a devil worshipping forum.Please spare us this obnoxious stuff - it's merely the other end of the spectrum from bible-thumping Jesus fundies .
It cracks me up when fundies accuse atheists of hatred, and yet you look at their (and their god's) track record. A god that lets people die horribly, be born horribly deformed, sends people to hell in some belief systems, or is going to destroy everyone horribly (what the hell, he already did it once with the flood........and yet they and their god are somehow more "loving". Nice.
Notice that none of the apologists have said a word about what I posted earlier regarding different myths that Jesus shared attributes with, or the interesting parallels between Jesus' ministry and Titus' campaign.
Don't acknowledge it, don't read it, make believe it doesn't exist and your world will continue on as usual, Nicolaou I don't share your beliefs, I believe there is a God, but I respect your viewpoints, and think that resorting to missquoting your words, and taking them out of context is just what religious apologists do, when faced with ideas that may force them to look at the facts.
IC
Nic,
In reading your posts it reminds so much of my frustration in trying to get to the bottom of what I could believe and what I would have to reject. Was there a God? Was Jesus his Messiah? Which historians could I trust to give me the best answers? Which ones were biased? And more personally, was I getting in my own way? Was I hanging onto a belief because it had brought me comfort and so much hope in the past? You can spend an amazing amount of time and energy trying to sort it all out. For me it led to a lot of anger. Why should it be this difficult? It didn't make sense.
Having been influenced by Michael Critchton's biography "Travels" in which the author tried out many esoteric things to see what would happen (bending spoons, seeing auras, fortune telling) I came to believe that my own *direct experience* was something I could put faith in. With that in mind I thought I'd try an experiment. I'd ask God to show me how to believe in him because I didn't see that it was possible. I'd give it a couple of months of prayer and what happened. If nothing happened then I could discard the belief and let it go. I couldn't put faith in a bible whose authorship is debated and whose origin was controversial. I couldn't put faith in other people's experiences or beliefs or their books, as they tend to be biased by their own personal experiences. My method was to get my own.
