I've been lurking on different ex-jw boards for a few years now and this is my first post to this board.
I am a 42 yr old gay female who has a roommate who is studying to be baptized. We are not romantically involved. The people she studies with know about me and our situation. She can't support herself on her own and we have a very good friendship. She can not drive because of seziures so I take her to all her meetings (I just drop her off and pick her up). I think she's planning on getting baptized the first of next year. My question is will they allow her to be baptized as long as she's living with me? Thanks!
New here - question about roommate getting baptized
by oppgirl63 22 Replies latest jw friends
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oppgirl63
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loosie
Your roomate will probably be moving out soon.
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Es
Welcome to the board.
I would say she will be encouraged to leave, as you would be viewed as a bad asscociation in there eyes.
Enjoy your stay and i look forward to hearing more
es
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oppgirl63
I have posted this question to JW's on the beliefnet message board and here is what they have told me.
bama1963
11/15/2005 1:12 PM 1 out of 9
11/15/2005 4:56 PM 2 out of 9
Even staying overnight unchaperoned with someone known to be gay and nothing physical occurring, could result in her not being to get baptized until she moved or if after she was baptized, being disfellowshipped.
If she looks like she is serious about baptism, perhaps now is a good time to start looking for a new roommate.
Cassie
11/15/2005 8:28 PM 3 out of 9
If she's gay, then that would be a different matter.
I'm not sure I've ever seen anything on this, so I could be wrong. I think she should ask an elder or do some research to find out.
11/16/2005 12:41 AM 4 out of 9
SummerThyme
BeliefNet Community Host
Messages: 5 - 8 (9 total)
bama1963
11/16/2005 7:58 AM 5 out of 9
11/16/2005 12:20 PM 6 out of 9
If I have friends who use drugs and encourage me to do that, they are bad associates.
If I have friends who at one time dedicated their lives to Jehovah and have since turned their back on him and begun to practice sin again, they are bad associates. They are a danger to me, because they could influence me to do the things they are doing.
If your friend doesn't have a weakness for homosexual relationships, (if she sees herself as 100% straight), then you likely are not going to influence her to become gay. If you aren't trying to get her to do other things she shouldn't be doing, like drinking too much or sleeping around or whatever, then it is up to her to decide if you are a bad associate or not.
I have friends who are gay, and I have friends who are not worshippers of Jehovah. I don't hang out with them all the time, but I don't stop liking them just because they don't believe the way I do, and they are not the sort of people who will try and influence me to go against my conscience in anything I do. If they were, they likely wouldn't be my friends. I would consider them bad associations.
That's my way of looking at it anyway. She can ask the elders at her hall if they see it differently. It is still up to her individual conscience whatever they say. They may influence her decisions. They may show her scriptures from the Bible that have some bearing on the subject that maybe I haven't considered. But Jehovah's Witnesses don't just automatically cut off all contact with our friends. We may make some new ones, and we may drift away from old friendships somewhat. OR we may not.
I think it comes down to if you can accept her as she is, and not try and make her be something she is trying to avoid, then you are just a friend, not necessarily a 'bad associate'.
11/16/2005 9:11 PM 7 out of 9
Here is my opinion, and that is all I can give you. we live in a system where rents are very high. Many times, persons have to share a home because of this fact. They may or may not be our friends, share our beliefs, influence our lives. If they do, then of course, we would want to carefully consider how they are affecting our spirituality. I would not think that your sexuality would affect her in any way, other than she may be identified by persons who know you as gay also. This might influence her to not want to continue your rental arrangement.
When my son went to a large city to be a full time worker for Jehovah,or a pioneer,as we call them,he had to share an apt with another male pioneer. Because the area where they lived was home to many gay couples, he never mentioned to anyone who was not a witness, his living arrangements,in case, they might conclude he was gay.
If you were not, you might be promiscuouly engaged in intercourse with a man. That would not be any more acceptable to our future young sister.
You sound like a sincere person who could be a lovely person for her to live with. I think it will be her call and I would be hoping that eventually you would look into the bible, because of her good conduct, and join us in worshipping our great God, Jehovah.
with affection from Marken
11/17/2005 8:42 AM 8 out of 9
SherB
11/17/2005 10:04 AM 9 out of 9
The purpose of these questions are so that a person being baptized will know exactly what we believe, and will not make that committment to become one of us without knowing what they are getting into. It is also so that we will know that they DO believe as we believe.
Normally the matter of who we our friends with is left up to the individual conscience. We may be advised, or counselled, if we seem to be hanging out with people who are doing us spiritual harm, but no one has the right to go further than that unless we are actually committing serious sin. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 lays out what Jehovah considers serious sin.
Notice it doesn't say anything there about who you are friends with, just what activities you yourself are practicing. -
jaffacake
Hello and Welcome,
I've never been a JW but my lifelong best friend was baptised earlier this year. When she gets baptised, your friendship will soon be over, sooner rather than later, although your friend does not know that yet.
I've been through the same experience that you will go through.
I am not gay, my friend and I were each best man at each other's weddings in the early eighties. We have been friends since 12 (now 47) closer than brothers all that time. Our wives are (were) close too and all our kids. I researched the JW indoctrination process and told my friend in February that in just a few months we would no longer associate with each other, or be friends. He would never phone me etc etc. He denied this would happen and promised me we would remain friends.
Within a month of that conversation, even before his baptism, communication stopped. He found many excuses, but we only speak when I phone him.
It is probably too late to expose the JWs. There are many books that can help such as Captives of a Concept, by Don Cameron - a poster on this board. It can be ordered online. Another book you could try to persuade her to read, secretly, before making her final commitment is Crisis of Conscience from the Commentary Press website. http://www.commentarypress.com/booklist-eng.html
I wish you well in your difficult situation. This religion destroys lives and friendships. I'll pm you with my email address in case I can offer any help or suggestions.
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under74
What people here on JWD are saying sounds about right.
The person on the other site that stated
I'm not sure about that. If you have never had that kind of a relationship together, I can't see any reason why rooming with you wouldn't be the same as rooming with any other girl. If she's straight, then there is likely no temptation for her.
I'm pretty sure is wrong...see, JWs have a really old mind set..the kind that thinks people can be converted into homosexuality.
Being gay is considered a huge sin and if JWs know she'll be encouraged to have no contact with you once it's certain she's in the group. My mom cut off (shunned) her sister and my grandmother (who weren't gay) for years. She also cut off my uncle (actually my much older cousin) with the only reason being he was gay.
You sound like a good friend. I hope things get better for you and your roommate...let us know if you need more questions answered.
And welcome to JWD.
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DevonMcBride
Hi and welcome oppgirl.
I was in the same boat as Jaffacake. I too lost a very good friend to the JW's and the same thing that happened to him, happened to me. Within one month after his baptism, he stopped associating with me. The only time I would speak to him is when I called him and if he wasn't home, he didn't return my phone calls. The sad part is that in his heart he didn't want to stop associating with me but the elders had too much control over him.
The responses you got on Beliefnet were from active JW's who paint a rosy picture of the religion/cult. You will be considered "bad association" regardless of what activities you are doing with her. Even if they are acceptable by JW standards, the fact that she is doing them with a "worldly" person makes it wrong.
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luna2
Welcome to the board, oppgirl63.
If she is a strong person who refuses to allow others in the congregation to sway her regarding her living arrangements, things might remain the same. Although, if her congregation has elders who threaten her with not being able to get baptised or, worse, wait until she gets baptised to threaten her with disfellowshipping if she doesn't change her living arrangements, she may feel compelled to move out. Attitudes differ from congregation to congregation depending on the consciences and personalities of the PO (presiding overseer, kind of like head elder) and the other dominant elders.
I had a friend in my last congregation who had non-JW roommates in the house she rented. In fact, she wouldn't even consider a JW roommate because she didn't trust them not to rip her off somehow (lalalala, we're all loving sisters who would never take each other to court over a little thing like not paying rent). I don't know if the elders ever pressured her about it, but I'm pretty sure she would have told them to mind their own business. Of course, I don't believe she would have ever told anybody if one of her roommates was gay. She wasn't, so to her, I'm sure it would have been a non-issue...and she was very careful about sharing too much information with the busybodies in the congregation.
However, like Devon and jaffacake have said, she may become distant and cold towards you as she gets sucked further and further in. JWs are known to soft pedal certain doctrines and attitudes in the beginning, but after a while, you find that they aren't as quite as tolerant or as loving as they seemed at first, and there's lots of pressure to conform...especially after baptism. The scripture at 1Corinthians, 15:33, "Do not be decieved, bad association spoils useful habits", is pounded into JW brains nearly every meeting, and it does have an effect.
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oppgirl63
Thanks for all the replies...it's nice to have someone to talk to about all this.
Those people know I'm gay and my roommate tells me she has no intention of moving out. We have discussed this and she has every intention of getting baptized at the next assembly after the first of the year. I told her I was concerned that they would put pressure on her to move out. I just wonder if they are going to let her get to the point of baptism (she is almost finished studying whatever book with the head elder and his wife...been going out in service since Sept....and never misses a meeting) and then spring it on her that she has to move. I wish they would tell her that now instead of later.
We are not living together as a 'couple' (no sex). She keeps the house clean and the laundry done (it's nice not to have to do laundry!). We do things together as friends (go to the beach, out to eat, etc.). I'm not currently in a relationship with someone else but I do have other gay friends in my life. I was just wondering what to expect in the next few months leading up to her baptism.
In a way I think she's trying to have her cake and eat it too. She loves living with me. I have a very good job and take care of all the bills and food. I make sure she gets to all her meetings and she's never late....so they can't say I'm trying to stop her from doing this. I guess time will tell how all this plays out. -
sass_my_frass
Hi hon and welcome. Sorry this is happening to you!
I wonder if those JWs who replied felt like they were lying when they were telling you that, or just thought they were being reasonable. If it's true that they're so reasonable, she will be able to extract a promise from them now, that her living arrangements will never be a hindrance to her spiritual development. Don't get me started.
Wow, isn't your friend lucky? Free food and bills and a lift to the meetings! If only you were straight, then the elder and his wife would be able to convert you too! Sorry but there's no such thing as room for homosexuality in the cult, and they are going to put a lot of pressure on her to make other living arrangments. Jehovah will provide you see, so you should watch your outgoings over the next few months to make sure she's not skimming off what she can before she goes. She might be okay with them ruining her life but don't let it steal your sunshine love.