by findingmyway 13 Replies latest jw experiences
I am currently reading COC (just starting chapter 11 - Point of Decision). I was also just reading on Shaun's site the Time magazine article (http://www.jwfiles.com/franz-article.htm) on Ray Franz's shunning. I didn't realize that he and many other dissenters believe that all who belive in Christ will go to heaven.
If you were once a JW, what do you now believe about the heavenly hope?
Simply put....
"Therefore you must thank God that He has bestowed upon you the blessing of life and existence in the human kingdom. Strive diligently to acquire virtues befitting your degree and station. Be as lights of the world which cannot be hid and which have no setting in horizons of darkness. Ascend to the zenith of an existence which is never beclouded by the fears and forebodings of non-existence. When man is not endowed with inner perception he is not informed of these important mysteries. The retina of outer vision though sensitive and delicate may nevertheless be a hindrance to the inner eye which alone can perceive. The bestowals of God which are manifest in all phenomenal life are sometimes hidden by intervening veils of mental and mortal vision which render man spiritually blind and incapable but when those scales are removed and the veils rent asunder, then the great signs of God will become visible and he will witness the eternal light filling the world. The bestowals of God are all and always manifest. The promises of heaven are ever present. The favors of God are all-surrounding but should the conscious eye of the soul of man remain veiled and darkened he will be led to deny these universal signs and remain deprived of these manifestations of divine bounty. Therefore we must endeavor with heart and soul in order that the veil covering the eye of inner vision may be removed, that we may behold the manifestations of the signs of God, discern His mysterious graces, and realize that material blessings as compared with spiritual bounties are as nothing. The spiritual blessings of God are greatest. When we were in the mineral kingdom, although endowed with certain gifts and powers, they were not to be compared with the blessings of the human kingdom. In the matrix of the mother we were the recipients of endowments and blessings of God, yet these were as nothing compared to the powers and graces bestowed upon us after birth into this human world. Likewise if we are born from the matrix of this physical and phenomenal environment into the freedom and loftiness of the life and vision spiritual, we shall consider this mortal existence and its blessings as worthless by comparison.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 265)
carmel
If you were once a JW, what do you now believe about the heavenly hope?
After JW de-programming, I then completed the Bible de-construct phase. I do not believe in a heavenly hope. The search continues.
After researching Near Death Experiences or NDE's I believe that the Soul survives after death and goes to another realm, it usually looks like whatever the person having the NDE believes heaven to be, for some it's like an earthly paradise, for others it's like being in front of Gods throne praising him, the Egyptian's and American Indians have their own and so on, you can also visit other people's heavens or realms, it's quite interesting actually, and you are reunited with your loved ones. Of particular interest are the NDE's of people that were born blind, after being revived they reported having sight, and described what people and things looked like when they floated above their bodies, scientists are baffled about that one.
We will all eventually find out when our time comes but at this point in my journey this has brought a sense of happiness and comfort to my life, and although I don't believe in organized religion, I do believe in God the creator, whoever he, she, or it may be.
IC
Hi Findingmyway!!
I didn't want to give my personally opinion as it really doesn't count for much...but I did want to show you some scriptures from the bible to help you sort it all out for yourself.
Consider these scriptures. They were the first ones
that got me thinking.
1John 5:12 says:
"He who HAS the son Has life."
Notice the PRESENT tense here. It does not say that he
who has the son will have life, someday in the future like
at a future resurrection.....but NOW...HAS
You know as a witness they teach that when you die,
you are dead. You are conscience of nothing at
all. You turn to dust. They say you are in God's memory to be
resurrected someday in the future. Yet, it says here..... we have
this gift of life NOW as long as we have the Son. We
(HAVE) LIFE.
John 5:24,25 says:
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and
believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and WILL NOT
BE CONDEMNED. He has passed over from death to life. I
tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God
and those who hear WILL live."
Prior to Jesus coming the dead could not go to
heaven and be with God because they were sinners and
imperfect. A debt had to be paid. The debt was thesentence of death.
Jesus paid the debt for us. He did the punishment that we
should have paid. When he died, he said.."It is
finished." The sentence was death and he paid it for us.
Now we do not die....if we believe in Him.
We now became righteous before God because of him.
Nothing we can do will make us righteous. No amount of
good deeds or works. Jesus did it. WE just need to
really believe in Him. That is why the above scripture
says if we believe in Him we have eternal life and
will not be condemned (which was death). When we
believe in him we cross over from death to life. We no
longer have to pay that penalty.
When Jesus says a time is coming and it is now when
the dead would hear his voice and live he wasn't
kidding. He had arrived to pay our price and he bought
us. He bought Jew and gentile alike. The dead were
now able to live in heaven and those after him are now
allowed to go to heaven because we are now righteous
thru the blood of Jesus. He bought us....we now are
owned by him. We are now protected by Him. It was a
gift as I will show you later.
Remember, He came not to condemn the world, but to
SAVE THE WORLD.
Save us from what?
It was to save us from death!! He was successful.
If we really still die when we pass on, then his death was in vain. He really
did not save us from death if we still continue to
die. That is why 1Corinthians 15:13 says:
" If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ
has been raised. Then our preaching is in vain."
It is impossible to touch on all the scriptures but I
am giving you some of my favorites. Remember, I am
quoting Jesus words.
another of Jesus own words at John 8:51:
John 8:51:
"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he
will NEVER SEE DEATH AT ALL"
NEVER means NEVER. He did not say maybe you won't
see death....or you will see death until I resurrect
you later. He said you will NEVER see death.
John 11:25 says:
"Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the
life. He who believes in me WILL LIVE, even though he
dies, and whoever lives and believes in me will NEVER
DIE."
Hence, we WILL LIVE and we WILL NEVER DIE.
It is evident the apostles felt the same way.
Paul's says in 2Corinthians 5:8:
"We are confident. I say, and would prefer to be AWAY
from the body and at home with the Lord.
Philippians 1:23 says:
"I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be
with Christ, which is better by far. But it is more
necessary for you that I remain in the body."
This brings up the topic of spirit, soul and body. See
how he wants to give up the body and be home with
Jesus? The body is just needed to live here on earth
It is not needed in heaven. But the spirit resides in
the body!! The spirit lives on. The spirit is the
real you.
Acts 7:59 tells us Stephen is being stoned to
death. It says...
"While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord
Jesus, receive my spirit."
1Thessalonians 5:23..
"May your WHOLE SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY be kept
blameless."
Ephesians 2:4
"Because of His great LOVE for us, God, who is rich in
mercy, made us ALIVE WITH CHRIST even when we were
dead in our transgressions... it is by GRACE YOU HAVE
BEEN SAVED."
Can you begin to see how they only showed us what they
wanted us to believe? How they had books called
reasoning with the scriptures, but only reasoned their
way.
Isn't it funny we preached in the door to door work
challenging people to examine their religions to see
if it was the truth, but we were not allowed to
examine our own!!! If we did we were labeled
apostates!!... and disfellowshiped!!
Remember, you are loved by God very, very much.
What he did, and offered us, was for you too. You are
worthy of this gift. Don't give up. Question and then
question some more. Pray and read. Read the book of
John. Read it for what it is. Read it without the
Watchtower glasses on. Let your heart guide you. Most
of all ask God to help you with this.
Lots of support
gold_morning
A Course in Miracles puts it this way:
" God's will is that you be in Heaven and nothing can keep you from it or it from you"
I just wish that I could accept that truth this time around without having to come back again and again.
I believe I am going to be with my Lord in Heaven. Just like Abraham who was waiting for his heavenly reward. It does say this in the bible!!!
After researching Near Death Experiences or NDE's I believe that the Soul survives after death and goes to another realm, it usually looks like whatever the person having the NDE believes heaven to be, for some it's like an earthly paradise, for others it's like being in front of Gods throne praising him, the Egyptian's and American Indians have their own and so on, you can also visit other people's heavens or realms, it's quite interesting actually, and you are reunited with your loved ones. Of particular interest are the NDE's of people that were born blind, after being revived they reported having sight, and described what people and things looked like when they floated above their bodies, scientists are baffled about that one.
NDEs are more to do with a uncontrolled release of neurotransmitters in the brain near death than any actual experience of the detached 'soul'. This is borne out by the fact that the people's near death experiences are based on what they believe heaven to be. Obviously not all of the heavens are real, and the experience is simply an interpretation of the flurry of false sensory information manufactured by the excessive neurotransmitters in a way that is consistent with their belief system.
If you were once a JW, what do you now believe about the heavenly hope?
that heaven is a mentally discontinuous concept because it doesn't exist. the hope for it is neither here nor there.
ts
I don't know what will happen to us. For now, I am content to know that in this life, we may not be meant to know truth or have all the answers.
I know there is intelligent life other than us that we can't necessarily see. Is it spirit life? I don't know. Could be aliens for all I know. I'm an eyewitness to it and so are four other people that were with me.
One thing convinces me that there is a good chance that we will live on after the death of our bodies. That one thing is the love we have for our families, especially our children and grandchildren. There is such pain when we lose a loved one.
Another thing that makes me hope there is life beyond this is people like Jimi Hendrix or Mozart or Vincent Van Gogh. Those three men are amazingly talented. I just think it's a terrible waste for them to cease to exist.
