Christians - Can you Ever Lose your Salvation?

by gumby 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • gumby
    gumby
    That leaves me with only a few uncertain ideas as to what it means to "blaspheme the Spirit". It's a highly contentious issue.

    True LT

    All one has to do is look in several commentaries to see the various understandings amoung scholars regarding it.

    I think it's like some bastards on the planet that are hardened criminals. Regardless of the love and chances they are given, they don't want it. Like a sociopath ( can't spell) They are the ones who know beyond a doubt the Holy Spirit/Jesus/God exists, yet defy it.

    One commentator said it only applied while Jesus walked the earth and that it had to be a direct denial of him in the flesh as gods son.

    Gumby

    Gumby

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Gumby:
    That's as good an explanation as any.

    Trying to make every single scripture fit is a nightmare, which is why I'm content to have an opinion and argue it strongly but can't stand dogmatism.

    If a guy loves Christ it's good enough for me

  • Golf
    Golf

    Gumby, your including 'bastards' in your post, correct?


    Golf

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Rev gambles

    Like a sociopath ( can't spell) They are the ones who know beyond a doubt the Holy Spirit/Jesus/God exists, yet defy it.

    Can i be devil's advocate for sociopaths? Thankyou. All indications are that true sociopaths are unable to change their state, even if they wanted to. In other words, that is what they are; like most homosexuals are what they are, a cat is a cat, etc. So, even though people should give up on them, would jesus also do that? After all, he is supposed to have more love than anybody, more drawing power than anybody, finding a way where no way existed before.

    S

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Gumby

    Here are some references I would use to show Paul's 'already but not yet' theology:

    2 Corinthians 1:21-22

    'He (God) anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come'

    Ephesians 1:13-14

    'When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession'

    Ephesians 4:30

    'And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption'

    In these terms, I'd interpret blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (denying his power) as rejection of your salvation - or throwing away your inheritance. He cannot indwell or work in your life if you refuse to acknowledge him.

    Ianone brings up an interesting point. How does free-will come into play if you are purchased by christ blood yet choose to leave.......as many here have done because they cannot accept it as truth any longer?
    It's a very good point. On this, I initially see two options but there are almost certainly more (dammit I wish I had more thinking time!). You could take the ultra-Calvinist 'never saved in the first place' view or, the one which says that we simply don't know what's going to happen in the future, right up to judgement day. I know folks who have rejected Christianity for many reasons and then years later rediscovered it. Then again, there's still that other question of would a Christian want to lose their salvation anyway?
  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Okay, here's the thing, even Ted Bundy's mother stuck by him to the end. And if she is still alive, I bet she still loves him.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Gumby

    The most frequent objection to the doctrine of eternal security is that it supposedly promotes the idea that Christians can live anyway that they want to - and still be saved

    I don't know about that. I'm just like Paul

    Rom 7:19

    For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    Before I came to Christ, I sinned as much as I wanted to. Now, I sin more than I want to.

    D Dog

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    LT:

    You're a Calvinist too!

    Many I fellowship with aren't.

    If a guy loves Christ it's good enough for me

    Yep. Cheers, Ozzie

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Psssst LT

    Do you think Gumby is checking for fire insurance?

    D Dog

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    I would believe a union with God would be like any marriage. Just because you accept that person for all time doesn't mean you're really going to do it over the long haul. You may choose to get a divorce later.

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