by jeanniebeanz 50 Replies latest jw friends
JAVA:
Of course spirituality can be totally distinct from religion. I'm a big proponent of that fact.
However most people take their spirituality along with some form of religion. Hence my comments. To say that religion has no benefit to people is to go contrary to clinical evidence.
I would think that it's original purpose was to answer questions for which there was no answer and to direct mankind toward conformity.
On the basis of that it seems that your new religion is "science".
Personally I don't think those were the original purposes of all religion, as evidenced by a carpenter from Nazareth...
See, that's just it. We believe what science proves. On some of those points, religion can exist in harmony. On others, it cannot. When a person or people choose to believe a religious philosophy that flies in the face of science then they are following a mythology rather than accepting the newly revealed information and moving on.
As long as science doesn't turn religious. Science is only ever our best guess. The theory of how gravity works seems plausible only until someone discovers something that makes even more sense. Think about how many scientists in history have been balked at, or even executed for their discoveries.
I will accept a modern religious philosophy that can be proved scientifically and which does not harm mankind.
There are some fundamental problems with this line of reasoning.
Ditto what Little Toe said. I don't think there would have been an Albert Schweitzer or a Mother Teresa without religion. Where did Martin Luther King and Mahatma Ghandi learn of their technique of nonviolent protest?
I'd like to add another religious hero to my list; Jean Vanier, founder of L'Arche.
http://www.unb.ca/bruns/9900/issue11/entertainment/book2.html
From Jean Vanier's book "Becoming Human" I learned about both the benefits (inclusiveness) and destructive potential (suppression of individuality) of communities. Every community has to fight the tendency to slap down dissenters. Embrace the differences in others! JWD itself can tend towards cruelty, if we let it. When we identify this haven as being so special that we attack those who are different, we're going down that same path of US versus THEM that we are blaming religion for.
“Can we reasonably have a dream of a world... where people, whatever their race, religion, culture, abilities or disabilities ... can find a place and reveal their gifts?”- JeanVanier, Founder of L’Arche -
On the basis of that it seems that your new religion is "science".
I would say progress, but science would work too on some levels since science often leads the way in progress.
As long as science doesn't turn religious. Science is only ever our best guess.
I agree. Which is why not being overly tied to one philosophy is a good idea; new information can prove the basis for your philosophy to be in error. Then the temptation is to remain with the old idea even though the evidence is suggesting that it is incorrect.
You can't scientifically prove a philosophy, religious or otherwise.When I say 'scientifically prove' a 'philosiphy' I mean prove that it has a sound basis in fact or is beneficial. For (very simple) example, I can live my life believing that germs do not exist because my religion stubbornly clings to the idea that they do not. If I do that and live in a filthy manner and reap all kinds of illness then my religion has not benefitted me on that point because it has blocked a scientific advance. In this instance, science has proven a religious philosophy to be non-beneficial to me. Think of the witnesses and vaccinations. Same thing, imho. Would that count?
If it could be, you would have to accept it, whether it harmed mankind or not. After all, it had been proven to be the truth, right?Not quite following you on this one since there is a big difference between truth and fact. I'll go with fact. J
I don't think there would have been an Albert Schweitzer or a Mother Teresa without religion. Where did Martin Luther King and Mahatma Ghandi learn of their technique of nonviolent protest?
It is true that some people of faith have accomplished great things. However, for each Mother Teresa there is a Bloody Queen Mary who set out to butcher people for being <gasp> Protestants.
People are capable of doing wonderous or evil things regardless of whether they have a religion or not.
J
Which makes me conclude, jeannie, that Religion is the tool, or excuse for bad behavior, not the cause.
The practice of creating exclusive groups and then "punishing" the non-conformists may be ingrained in human nature. This is not exclusive to religion. Not to say that we should condone it.
I think we may be talking about two diffrent things; individuals of faith, and religion. As individuals, each person is accountable for their own actions true. However, if a guiding religious philosophy contributes to people taking a destructive path, is not that religious philosophy at least partially responsible for the damage done to individuals of faith?
If you look at religious leaders who teach their followers from birth that another people is evil, and these people then grow up to be haters of another race, then I see that religion as being a cause, and not an effect.
I am not saying that all religion is evil or bad. However, if you look at the history of religion and its effect on the human race in terms of war, torture, abuse and denial of scientific facts in order to preserve its powerbase, then, collectively, I just don't see much good in it.
Not sure how faith fits into all that, but I'm not talking about faith per se. I'm talking about religion.
J
All the heroes I mentioned, Jeannie, would have credited their religion for helping them make them the people they turned out to be. They would not have said they had become what they did in spite of religion. When it is a good thing, religion provides a structure and an ethics to people's choices.
I think it is the native desire to expel "outsiders" that turns religion and other communities to evil things.
I think it is the native desire to expel "outsiders" that turns religion and other communities to evil things.
How very, very true that can be...
J
