Do Jehovah's Witnesses need Jesus as their Savior?

Honesty

I have been thinking a lot about how the WTBTS downplays Jesus in their publications, public talks and general conversation. I believe they have been conditioned by the organisation to disregard His role in their salvation due, in part to the twisting of the following scripture: Roman s 6:7 For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

According to current WT doctrine, if a JW dies faithful to the WTBTS before Armageddon he/she will have a free ticket into Paradise so they really don't need Jesus before they die.

Also, the WT claims that the JW's can pass unscathed through the destruction of 99.9% of the world's population at Armageddon as long as he/she remains loyal to the whims of the Watchtower and its ever changing doctrines.

Can anyone tell me why they need Jesus?

ozziepost

An interesting question and one that causes mainstream christians to view JWs as non-christian.

I always believed i was a christian and would vehemently defend myself against any charge of being otherwise. However, nowadays, I kinda think that non-JWs have a point when they say that dubs aren't christian.

According to Dub teachings, Jesus offered himself as the Redeemer, but according to a past WT any of the angels could have served the purpose!

It's no wonder then that the dubs almost overlook Jesus, for once he'd 'done his job' then what?

Scriptures speaking of Christ having "all authority", Jesus being "the creator of all things", Jesus having "his witnesses" seem conveniently ignored by the Dubs.

Why aren't they known as "Jesus' Witnesses" if they need a separate name for themselves?

ghostbuster

i've read in many threads that JWs are not really christian. What exactly makes them say that?

gold_morning

Hi,

To be a Christian means that you acknowledge with your "heart" that it is JESUS that saves you from your sins....and belonging to Him is your only redemption. Though the organization reconginzes Jesus... they feel savlation comes thru THEM... and give Christ NO DIETY.

Acts 4:12........"Salvation is found in NO ONE ELSE, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." (not the name of "Jehovah's Witneses"..but in the name of Jesus)

Hebrews 7:25...."He is able to save COMPLETEY those who come to God THROUGH HIM, because he always lives to intercede for them." (the organization feels you are NOT complete unless you belong to them..and salvation is THROUGH them.)

Colossians 2:9....."For in Christ ALL the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form...." (All means all)

Romans 3:22...."This righteousness from God comes through faith in JESUS CHRIST to all who believe." (so we become righteous through Jesus.... not from belonging to the organization)

Can you see how the organization has taken the place of Jesus?

gold_morning

ghostbuster

So basically you don't have to belong to any church to be saved but you must be baptised. But to be baptised you must belong to a church.

It's a strange notion that you can only be saved through an money spinning organisation.

It has just occured to me that baptism is just a symbolic action like taking an oath. It seems a very human minded method to get members to your cause.

When jesus did it the holy spirit supposedly came down on him. What about the rest of us?

gold_morning

No,,

When you are baptised you are "outwardly" displaying your convictions to Jesus... not to ANY organization. Besides.. it is not being baptized that saves you. It is loving Jesus and believing in Him with your "heart" It is with your heart you are saved... not by a specific act.

Romans 9:10....."If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in YOUR HEART that God raised him from the dead,YOU WILL BE SAVED.................... for it is with YOUR HEART THAT YOU BELIEVE AND ARE JUSTIFIED, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved......everyone who calls on the name of the Lord WILL BE SAVED."

When you accept and love Jesus as the one who saves....not an organization..it is the holy spirit that guides you.

John 14:16-_..."he will give you another counselor to be with you forever... the Spirit of truth...you know him, fo he lives with you and will be IN you.....on that day you will realize that I am IN MY FATHER, and you ARE IN ME, and I AM IN YOU. (notice "IN".. not along side..but "IN")

John 17:23..."I IN THEM and YOU IN ME. May the be brought into complete unity to let the world know that YOU SENT ME and have loved them even as you have loved me."

Romans 8:11..."And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus form the dead is LIVING IN YOU, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies throught his Spirit, WHO LIVES IN YOU." (vs 16)....And by him we cry, "ABBA, Father. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

gold_morning

lv4fer

Baptism is what yo do to show you belief in Jesus. Baptism doesn't save you. If yu want to get baptised you don't have to belong to church. You could do it in a spa or a jacuzzi or a big bathtub. You don't have to belong to any specific church to be a christian, but the fellowship is nice.

Honesty

An interesting question and one that causes mainstream christians to view JWs as non-christian.

It's more than just a 'view' around these parts, Ozzie. I teach a F.A.I.T.H. class on effectively witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses and other non-christian groups. One of the topics is trademarks of a cult and invariably, the unanimous decision is that the Jehovah's Witnesses, along with several other groups who dethrone and deny Christ's diety meet all the criteria of a cult.

AuldSoul

Honesty,

I think you have hit on a key there. An additional logical leap that I have been toying with how to express is this: It takes JWs 4500 hours to convert one person into a baptized JW. They have a horrible retention rate, which means that many of those for whom 4500 hours were spent don't remain JWs.

If they ACTUALLY believe all those who die before Armageddon will be resurrected and they ACTUALLY have love strong enough to sacrifice themselves for others, their time and energies would be much better spent killing as many people as possible before they are killed themselves.

Think it through, the logic is a solid as rock given their beliefs being true.

If a belief structure that would logically constitute mass murder an act of kindness isn't an example of faulty reasoning, I don't know what is.

AuldSoul

Honesty

I think you have hit on a key there. An additional logical leap that I have been toying with how to express is this: It takes JWs 4500 hours to convert one person into a baptized JW. They have a horrible retention rate, which means that many of those for whom 4500 hours were spent don't remain JWs.
If they ACTUALLY believe all those who die before Armageddon will be resurrected and they ACTUALLY have love strong enough to sacrifice themselves for others, their time and energies would be much better spent killing as many people as possible before they are killed themselves.
Think it through, the logic is a solid as rock given their beliefs being true.

Auld Soul, I have meditated on the exact same concept many times during the past 15 years. It was one of the reasons I started doubting the validity of the WT claims.

The retention rate versus the amount of time the JW's put in just to make one convert is undeniable proof they are not from God. It is amazing that they have the audacity to use the following scripture to define their movement:

Isaiah 60:22 "

The little one himself will become a thousand, and the small one a mighty nation. I myself, Jehovah, shall speed it up in its own time."

One thing I have noticed about the JW's is they are all about numbers and not about people. The elder who 'studied' with me even said the same thing about 17 years ago, "we are in a numbers game" were his exact words. I should have been awake enough back then to realise the religion was nothing but an unloving group of people who pretended to be happy and part of 'Jehovah's righteous organisation' in order to keep from admitting that Jesus came for sinners and not righteous people. I asked the ex once if she thought we were sinners. You would have thought I called her an apostate with the reaction I got. She used to get mad at me when I told her that 'imperfect' and 'sinner' did not mean the same thing.

Do Jehovah's Witnesses need Jesus as their Savior?

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