by Sirona 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Billygoat:
I feel the presence of my Lord ... It is an experience of being separated, isolated and yet ONE with everything around me. It always leaves me understanding Life better. Less judgemental, more open, loved and more loving.
My feelings are that there is great wisdom in your not allowing others to delineate what is Divine; and in this openness the sense of ONE will widen as the sense of separation and isolation wanes.
j
Billygoat....Isn't it interesting that the Society has a "paganism" fetish, and uses it to pare down a religion of all fun, feeling, and emotion? Judaism, like most "pagan" religions, was rooted in a reverance and awe of nature, as Psalms and Job sometimes quite beautifully attest, and the Society encourages none of that appreciation of nature....being stuffed into kingdom halls at night instead of talking outside under the stars, eschewing vacations in the great outdoors for massive conventions in hot stuffy arenas and auditoriums, oriented to books and magazines instead of experiencing life in general, etc. The great festivals of the OT, times of merriment and enjoyment of life, were actually of "pagan origins," inasmuch as Canaanite equinox harvest festivals and rituals can be construed as pagan (or rather, native), but the meanings had changed under henotheism such that the Israelites were no longer worshipping other gods when they continued with their festivals. How is that different from Christmas, birthdays, New Years, and all the other events on the calendar that the Society has turned into big no-no's? And what is wrong with myth? Only in our modern culture does myth = falsity/lies. Our greatest literature, poetry, movies, stories use mythic themes. Myth is a language for expressing universal truths about the human condition and for expressing one's experience of the divine, however one defines it....so why is it approached as a taint that needs to be denied or removed?
Nate....I was thinking it would be great to have an JAVA or IRC chat with you, me, Peacefulpete, and Narkissos about whatever we wanted to talk about. Wouldn't that be fun?
Usually I read threads such as this one, and get overwhelmed with incoming fire that before I can put down my contribution into bits &bytes with some semblance of order, the thread is dead and buried.
So this time I am going to wing it. I have read each and every post here. I try to absorb it all and try to capture the whole and then compress it as briefly as I can, which always ends up impossible.
This time I'll try to pick a few flowers, wild and cultivated from the thread and just make a small bouquet.
Why did the Whoever, send the Israelite /Jacobites down into Egypt? Why did he choose a man with dual cultural background who 'was instructed in all the ways of the Egyptians' as well as instruction in the ways of Abraham/Israel? Why did Moses dwell for 40 years wandering in the hot desert and stopped to see a bush, its extremities burnt dry with the heat, yet its deep root still supplying moisture to keep part of it alive, realizing that his people likewise, were being consumed yet not consumed. From between the cherubs, Egyptian and Abrahamic, he eventually presented a new constitution to the multitude he brought forth from Egypt.
Why did this multitude settle between the the rift between two continents, hammered over centuries by invasive forces from the east or from south west, the northwest and finally the west? Not only tyrants, but cultural influences also. Some fought against these influences, other absorbed them.
How come, Wise men came from the east with foreknowledge of the birth of a new rising star.
Why the words, Out of Egypt I called my son?
Arriving closer to our day:
By contrast, the efforts of Alexander Campbell, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy, John Nelson Darby, Victor Paul Wierwille, and others were aimed at voyaging into the apostolic past and recreating the Christianity of those days. (
Have you ever considered why Russell was so immersed in the Monuments of Whoever, in Egypt? Also, why "Judge" Rutherford, was so entranced with the period of the Judges ?
There is only The One. Problems arise, not when one immerses herself in nature, ancient writings or cultures, or present day ideologies, but when a choice is made to the exclusion of all others.
Knowledge of What and Who is covers the whole earth. Take off your shoes you are standing on holy ground, wherever circumstances and events have placed you. For this moment I have settled here pouring certain or uncertain thoughts into the soup.
belbab
Hi Leolaia
Your post suddenly improved itself! It's a MIRACLE! All it had to do was catch me when I wasn't half asleep and pumped full of meds.
I liked this part of your latest response, muy mucho.
"I was referring to them bringing up things to emphasize the connection that no one today would think has anything to do with each other, such as the story of Bellerophon flying to heaven on Pegasus and Jesus being prophesied riding into Jerusalem on a mule (cf. Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 65); I do not believe that either story influenced the other, or even have much resemblence other than generic. There is many other examples I've seen, but nothing that easily comes to mind right now.... "
Well now, I dunno. I think I see a clear connection between Bellerophon riding Pegasus with Jesus riding his ass! Hoo boy. I see your point.
"And thanks for the kind invitation to discussion offline. "
You're welcome!
Nate
Hello! I have been an-x-FOREVER jw since about 4 1/2 years ago. I wonder if I know anyone on here! Anywhoo, I have found this book that has BLOWN my mind away! I really think those watchtower writers MUST know by now that they DO NOT have the TRUTH!!!!!! Here is the link to the book. It is FREE for ALL to read... http://jahtruth.co.uk/twh.pdf
Are you sure you are not the author plugging your book in multiple threads? (BTW, the link does not load for me)
The book appears a mix of JWism, Eastern philosophy and Scientology.
Leolaia, I'd love to be involved in such a discussion. Some sort of simple instant messaging would easier but I game to try new things.
Why did the Whoever, send the Israelite /Jacobites down into Egypt? Why did he choose a man with dual cultural background who 'was instructed in all the ways of the Egyptians' as well as instruction in the ways of ; Abraham/Israel?
Belbab...perhaps the question is why did the writers of the Pentetuch spin the story this way? Was there quite obvious Egyptian influence in the revised Canaanite cult that required an explanation? Had some influential group of Egyptian/Hykssos of formerly high station migrated to Judah and integrated their story into the collective mythos?
Why did Moses dwell for 40 years ...
Recurring motifs of 40 are quite numerous in the OT and outside.
wandering in the hot desert and stopped to see a bush.....
Theophanic legends provided an etiological founding for holy places that existed at the time of writing.
From between the cherubs
Cherubs..sacred winged bulls popular throughout the region
and Abrahamic...
Abraham was quite likely a local deity, his legend was reshaped into a patriarch by later redactors and shapers of the mythos.
, he eventually presented a new constitution to the multitude he brought forth from Egypt.
A comparison of this 'constitution'/covenant with those of neighboring cultures reveals a common sense of morality and codified justice.
Why did this multitude settle between the the rift between two continents, hammered over centuries by invasive ;forces from the east or from south west, the northwest and finally the west? Not only tyrants, but cultural influences also. Some fought against these influences, other absorbed them.
Or is the body of legend a blend of all these influences. The final product (The OT and NT) denying its past, instisting that the faithful have remained free of outside influences.
How come Wise men came from the east with foreknowledge of the birth of a new rising star.
A recurring theme of the OT is the foreigner/ stranger embracing the faith, serves a polemical role. " The wisdom of our faith is so obvious that foreigners acknowledge it. So why not you?" Also the motif of a star heralding the birth of a hero/savior king was quite established in the middle East so why not include it in your Jesus legend?
Why the words, Out of Egypt I called my son?
The writer of Matthew (contradicting Luke here again) was using midrashic technique of reinterpreting OT passages apart from their context.
