This is the last time I will post or read about the "trinity" doctrine because in my mind Jehovah and Jesus has enlightened me to see the real source of the so-called Holy Trinity. Satan is the originator of this unbiblical doctrine. After I left JW's I felt I had to accept the Trinity doctrine in order to be "saved". Even though I felt the WTS was wrong on some of their doctrines I have always felt that they were right on the trinity doctrine. Now after careful prayer and biblical research I am totally convinced that the Trinity doctrine is a pagan-satanic doctrine that leads people away from Jehovah and Jesus and keep them in total confusion. I just wish ex-jw's would have the "guts" to admit it and stop letting born-again christians pull them around like puppets forcing a doctrine on them. If you feel that the trinity is true then stand firm for it but if you don't believe it don't just say you believe it to look good to born-again christians. They are not going to save you only Jehovah and Jesus will do that. I spent many years trying to believe in it because that is what born-agains told me I had to believe in. I gave up one authoritian group(JW's) for another authoritian group (BAC's) Now I believe in what I feel is right. Now back to the trinity and the reasons I believe it to be "false" and I do mean "false" are many reasons. First of all where in the entire bible does Jesus say he is God Almighty? Trinitarians always run to John 1:1 and say there it is. But reread the verse Jesus does not say he is God According to some bible translations St. John says the Word is God. But if you pick apart John 1:1 it actually denies Jesus is Jehovah. #1 it says in the "beginning" was the Word. Now why would John use the word "beginning" to describe the Word's existence unless he was conveying the thought as when the Word came into existence. Compare Gen 1:1 Where Jehovah creates the heavens and earth. I know of no trinitarian that would say the earth and the heavens are from eternity to eternity and they would point to the word "beginning" in Gen 1:1 to prove it but when it talks about Jesus they rapidly switch meanings so as not to contradict themselves. And also on John 1:1 How can the Word be "with" God and be God at the same time. BAC's always will answer this by saying that the Word is "with" God the Father. So my question to this answer would be for Trinitarians to show you from John 1:1 that the Word is with God the Father and not God the Holy Ghost? If God is three persons how can one tell if the Word is with God the Father or God the Holy Ghost? I have yet to find a BAC's to answer me on this point. They will usually argue that the Book of John is talking about Jesus and The Father. But my question again is for Trinitarians to show me from verse one it is God the Father and not God the Holy Ghost? To me trinitarians are really "Polytheist" believing in 3 Gods and not One as they say they believe in. John 1:2 would be totally unnecessary if John 1:1 proved the Word to be God. Because it says This one was in the beginning with God. ST John seems to be saying that the Word is totally different from the one who he is with not the same person. Some bibles make it very clear when they say the Word is divine or what God was the Word was. This shows that the word had divine origins. When you show a trinitarian Exodus 7:1 and they see that Moses was called God by Jehovah himself I have had some trinitarians argue that Moses was a "false" god. Then my question to them would be Did Jehovah use "false" gods and "false" Saviors if Moses was a false god? Moses was also called "savior" and I would take trinitarians to Isaiah 43:11 where Jehovah says there is "no" Savior with him or after him. So my question to Trinitarians would be Was Moses and Jehovah one and the same? Was Moses a "false" or "true" savior or "false" or "true" god? I turn their own question on them when they play word semantics by always asking Was Jesus a "false" god or "true" god? They have a hard time answering the questions about Moses being true or false but are quick to say Jesus is Jehovah because if there is only one true god then Jesus by JW's definition would be false. That is circular reasoning and can get BAC's into alot of trouble if you throw it back into their faces with Moses. I love to use circular reasoning on BAC's about "worship of Jesus". They just love to point out that Jesus received worship and therefore must be Jehovah God because Christians are only to worship Jehovah. But what about King David in the Old testaments that received worship? BAC's will immediately say that King David did not receive worship like Jehovah but only homage, honor or obeisance. I love to show them the verse in Rev 2:9 where Jesus says he will make the people in the synagogue of Satan come and worship at the disciples feet. Most Born-agains are totally blown away by this verse and say that "proskeno" that is rendered worship in the King James Version should be rendered obeisance. They are always condemning JW's for rendering "proskeno" as obesiance but when it suit BAC's they feel it is justified. Because if you leave it as worship in Rev 2:9 Jesus would be saying that his disciples are really Jehovah God because they would be receiving "worship".
The "Trinity" doctrine blasphemes Jehovah and Jesus.
by booker-t 19 Replies latest jw friends
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jstalin
There is no trinity because there is no Jesus, Jehovah, nor Holy Spirit. I came to that conclusion after much thinking, reading, and more thinking.
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wanda
Please correct me where this short 4-paragraph item of a friend is wrong. I did the underlining for emphasis.
THE FOUR MAJOR VIEWS OF GOD'S NATURE:
Catholic and almost all Protestant groups teach three totally different entities or persons have always existed from when time started included within what Romans 1:20 says is one “divine nature,” "Godship," "Godhead,” "divine nature" or deity depending on Bible version. The three are God the Father, Christ the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit.This belief called the trinity or Trinity adds that the Son and Holy Spirit share age, power, knowledge from or of God the Father as when an acorn may be only a day old but its genes have the Father oak tree's infinitely longer age, capacity and information. The Bible does not have the word "trinity" or Trinity in it but, as said, most believe the concept of Godhead or Godship is there at Romans 1:20 and elsewhere.
Finally, Unitarians teach the three do not form an overall Trinity, modern Modalists teach there is but one God who however has sometimes changed form into the Holy Spirit or Son of God, and Polytheists teach God is in fact gods or goddess, multiple persons, spirits or entities.
In ages past people sometimes killed others of different views about God’s nature being Trinity or Unitarian even though Romans 14 grants freedom to differ, but happily today more Christians believe in being tolerant and broadening out in fellowship while letting Bible reading teach on matters.
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Triple A
Just addressing one of your points. Exodus 7:1 NIV - Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.
If you are going to quote you should look at the thing. I do not see any comparison here. The word like takes away any meaning that Moses was truely a God or that he was a false god. The meaning here is that he is superior to Pharaoh, not that he in fact was God.
Even if you use a translation that does not use the word like, if you read around this passage the context is that Moses does not feel adequate to go before Pharaoh. And God is telling him not to worry that he is better than Pharaoh. -
Carmel
"His Holiness Christ said: "The Father is in me." This we must understand through logical and scientific evidences, for if religious principles do not accord with science and reason, they do not inspire the heart with confidence and assurance.
It is said that once John of Chrysostom was walking along the seashore thinking over the question of the trinity and trying to reconcile it with finite reason; his attention was attracted to a boy sitting on the shore putting water into a cup. Approaching him, he said, "My child, what art thou doing?" "I am trying to put the sea into this cup," was the answer. "How foolish art thou," said John, "in trying to do the impossible." The child replied, "Thy work is stranger than mine, for thou art laboring to bring within the grasp of human intellect the conception of the trinity."
Let us, free from past tradition, investigate the reality of this matter. What is the meaning of the father and the son?
This fatherhood and sonship are allegorical and symbolical. The Messianic reality is like unto a mirror through which the sun of divinity has become resplendent. If this mirror expresses "The light is in me" - it is sincere in its claim; therefore Jesus was truthful when he said, "The Father is in me."
The sun in the sky and the sun in the mirror are one, are they not? - and yet we see there are apparently two suns.
The Jews were expecting the coming of the Messiah, lamenting day and night, saying: "O God, send to us our deliverer!" But as they walked in the path of dogmas, rather than reality, when the Messiah appeared they denied him. Had they been investigators of reality, they would not have crucified - but would have recognized him instantly."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 152)
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anewme
Believe in what you want to Booker-t!
Alot of us believe like you do.
But alot of folks just cannot stop worshipping who they believe is God.
We will have to let it be.
What does it matter anyway? Like you said it only blasphemes Jehovah and Jesus, not you.
They are big boys and can rectify matters if and when they want to.
Just enjoy your prayers to the God you believe in.
Religion is a personal matter at this time.
I truly believe if the trinity were so important it would be clear and evident in the scriptures and Jesus would have told his followers that he was part of a threesome.
I was thinking the other day about the lack of pictures of Christ or mention of his appearance or any grave also indicates he was not to be worshipped. Also the scriptures which states "Christ will hand over the kingdom to God so that God will be everything to everyone" does not sound like the trinity will be worshipped forever. -
AlmostAtheist
Now I believe in what I feel is right.
Good for you, Dude. As it should be.
Now after careful prayer and biblical research I am totally convinced that the Trinity doctrine is a pagan-satanic doctrine that leads people away from Jehovah and Jesus and keep them in total confusion.
No need to keep your beliefs to yourself, and healthy debate isn't going to hurt anybody, but do keep in mind that some christians feel it's equally confusing to NOT believe the trinity. Without it, there are verses that they can't be comfortable with.
Personally, I believe the Bible presents several views of God and Christ and it's more a matter of which view you decide on, than figuring out what the Bible says on the topic. (As if I stated that rocks are hard, then later said they were like jello. Since I said both, which one do I really mean? No way to tell.)
But the important thing is you're making your own calls and not letting someone else dictate your beliefs to you. Fantastic!
Take care,
Dave
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Dogpatch
Ah, the Trinity haters! At least consider it from a historical perspective before you go back to the JW tripe:http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/jwtrinity.htm
Randy
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LittleToe
This is the last time I will post or read about the "trinity" doctrine...
Time will tell...
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AK - Jeff
Interesting metamorphosis we go thru when leaving the dubs, isn't it?
I don't think this is a black/white issue. So I don't veiw it that way any longer. As another said - if it was absolutely needed to have faith would God have not made it very clear.? As it is, it seems about as clear as mud to me!
I have read the arguments both ways. One thing I have seen is that most Christians [outside the cultland] do not seem to be so adamant about these things as we assumed. Not to say they have no opinion on this, they do. And some are obsessed with proving one way or the other.
Centuries of debate have not settled the issue - so I have resolved to get on with worshipping God the best I can. Love your neighbor and your God would seem to be more critical to acceptable worship than what we think is correct dogma. After all won't we be judged on how we treated others? I know of no scripture that states we would be judged adversely for being confused as to a particular doctrine -do you?
Just my Opinion
Jeff