I agree there is no trinity in a sense that God is 3 persons all in one . The bible is very clear that there is no trinity . The trinity belief was in fact very popular among pagan cultures and somehow got mixed in the christian belief system . The catholic church was very guilty of christianizing pagan beliefs and practices , it's very obvious they did it with this dogma . Deuteronomy 6:4 . The new testament is full of scripture refuting the trinity ,where it's clear that christ became a mediator between God and man and sat down at the right hand of God . You would have to ignore alot of things to argue over a very few things that could have and most likely were confused during translation .
The "Trinity" doctrine blasphemes Jehovah and Jesus.
by booker-t 19 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
jaffacake
Hello Booker,
I am a Christian, and like you I do not believe the trinity doctrine. But I just don't buy all that stuff about Satan being behind it. For goodness sake, since the first century there was much debate about the nature of God, and frankly the Bible does not clearly support or deny that one of several attempts to explain the nature of God and the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of.
I am not a trinitarian, but I don't think Satan inserted that Scripture to mislead people about the nature of God. Why can't we just accept that we all sincerely hold different views.
Some of your argumant may be influenced by the publication "should you believe in the trinity". Have you checked the many sources quoted (and misquoted) in that booklet. They run into dozens. If the case is as clear cut as you suggest, then why the need for such intellectual dishonesty, which only 0.01% of readers actually check out the quotations etc.
-
greendawn
I also reject the Trinity concept and also the JW idea that it was formulated under satanic guidance. It was simply an attempt to reconcile the worshipping of a created being with the idea of monotheism. If Jesus is God himself then there are no grounds for accusing Christians of polytheism and creature worship.
The JWs want to demonise traditional christianity in order to justify their late appearence in history so they see everywhere apostasies and sinister wilful intentions to corrupt christianity with satanic pagan ideas. Even the cross is pagan to them. -
DannyHaszard
I even got music-Trinity Quandary & Quantum Theory What say Danny Haszard on the trinity now-days? I refuted the trinity in countless debates as a lifelong 3rd generation devout dub
-
I quit!
Once I cleared my head of Watchtower doctrine belief in the Trinity started to make more sense to me however I have had enough of arguing about it as a witness. One book I found to present this belief in it in an intelligent manor is: "Science and The Trinity" by John Polkinghorne, printed in 2004.
-
AuldSoul
jaffacake: If the case is as clear cut as you suggest, then why the need for such intellectual dishonesty, which only 0.01% of readers actually check out the quotations etc.
I think you give too much credit to the readers, jaffacake. I would be surprised if the quotations get checked out by 0.01% of the readers.
AuldSoul
-
Sir Lawrence
Booker, I question your hermenoutics of the Bible, as well as your "analogia fidei". There are several passages that I wish to share with you that I do not quite know what to do with if I share your thoughts or views. Now depending on your translation of the Bible, which I am using the NIV Study Bible, Gen 1:2 clearly states "and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." In the Hebrew text where we grt this from is Hebrew, and the word Elohim is used for God, which is plural. What shall I do with that i must ask. That aside, let us go to Exodus 7:1 where God is speaking, "The LORD said to Moses, See I have made you like God to Pharoah and your brother Aaron will be your prophet." This is rich in meaning, any concordance or study Bible will explain for you that Moses is not a god but is using the situation as God would use the situation. God speeks through His prophets as Moses spoke through Aaron. Miss use of passages such as this are not wise. If you wish tobring up Revelation, which is also rich in symbolism, I will point you to Rev 22:18 "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to them God will add to him the plagues described in this book." Please becareful what you quote and say, you may bring judgement on your self. But my last point is in Acts, chapter 2. What do I do with Pentecost? If there is no Holy Spirit I must eleminate this whole book. Yet you believe that the church died if you will when the last apostle died, but they also spoke in tounges and where filled with the Holy Spirit. If God shows no favortism, can I not also hav the Holy Spirit in me as well?. What do I do with Paul when he converted the gentiles and they also were filled with the Holy Spirit? Lastly Christ Himself told us that He was sending the Holy Spirit. If Christ said it I believe it. How then, would you question the Holy Spirit as one in the trinity. this is for you to study. I cast no judgement, just food for thought. just remember that "God can get a good lick with a crooked stick".
-
Triple A
Sorry for the large blank area in my previous post. But it will not let me remove it now. Perhaps one of the site monitors can remove it.
-
marsh
I believe in the Godhead.The Triune God.
There was plurality in the Godhead in the OT.'Elohim'-translated as God is plural.Genesis 1:26 "US,and "OUR"Genesis 3:22."One of US".Genesis 11:7-8 "US".2 Samuel 23: 2-3 "The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me,andHis word was on my tongue.The God of Israel said,The Rock of Israel spoke to me:He who rules over men must be just,ruling in the fear of God"-------------THE FATHER-the God of Israel,the SON the Rock of Israel,and the SPIRIT.proceeding from the Father and the Son,who spoke by the Prophets.Genesis 1:1-3.The work of the Trinity.John 1:1-3.
Proverbs.30:4 Plurality,Father and Son.
Isaiah 6:8 "US".
Numbers 6: 24-26 Threefold blessing. (some do not agree)
Isa,6:3 Holy,Holy.Holy. (some do not agree)
Paul in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 contrasts the polytheism of the heathen with the One God of the Christian ,yet he refers to to Father and Son.
Ephesians 3:9.Hebrews 1:2,He created all things throught the Word,which began with "Let there be light"Hebrews says "To the Son He [God the father] says.."You Lord,in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,and the heavens are the work of your hand"--------------
Isa 48:16 "Come near to me,hear this,I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;from the time that it was,I was there.And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me. 3.
Isa 61:1 The Spirit of The Lord God is upon Me,because the Lord has annointed me to preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the broken hearted,to proclaim liberty to the captives,and the opening of the prison to those who are bound..." 3.
Luke 4: 18-21.the Me who was annointed to preach on Isa.
Luke 10:16 "He who rejects me rejects Him who sent Me John 20:21."As the Father has sent me I also send you"
Isa 63:8-10 "For He said,Surely they are My people,children who will not lie" So he became their Saviour.In all their affliction He was afflicted,and the Angel of His presence saved them.and He bore them and carried them all the days of old.But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;so He turned Himself against them as an enemy,and He fought against them.
Mathew 3: 16-17 3 involved in the act of Baptism.
Mathew 28:19 3.
1 Corinthians 6:11 3.
Once you take off the WT glasses you can see the Trinity clearly everywhere.Though the word Trinity is not in the Bible.
all 3 are everlasting Romans 16:26, to the commandment of the Everlasting God.[Father[
Micah 5: 2,whose goings forth has been from everlasting [Son]
Hebrews 9:14 ...who through the Eternal Spirit [The Holy Spirit]
all 3 are omnipresent.
Jeremiah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see Him? saith the Lord.Do I not fill heaven and earth?"[Father]
Mathew 18:20,and 28-30 "Where two or three are gathered in my name,there I am in their midst".....and lo,I am with you always,even to the end of the world"[Son]
Psalm 139:7-10 "Wither shall I go from thy Spirit?..If I ascend into heaven thou art there,if I make my bed in hell,thou art there,If I take the wings of the morning,and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,even there shall thy hand lead me.[The Holy Spirit]
3 took part in the ressurection.
Galatians 1: 1 John 2 19-21,Romans 8:11.
There are more but no time now....
I listened to a very good talk on this by Dr: Martin Lloyd Jones he says the doctine of the Trinity ,is the very heart of the Gospel.I would reccommend listening to this.just look for the Docs site .
There is also some good info on www.diakrisis.org.and Reachout Trust.as well as Freeminds. www.mlj.org.uk
In Church history I am told there were 3 primary controversies concerning the nature of God.Arianism,Sabellianism,Macedonianism.
-
Triple A
I like from the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures Edition 1969: Colossians 2:8-9, Be YOU looking at not someone YOU will be the (one) leading as booty through the philosophy and empty seduction according to the tradition of the men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ: because in him is dwelling down all the fullness of the godship bodily (bolding mine)
Edition 1985 changed godship to divinity.
Wouldn't godship be the same as godhead?
And where did the WTBTS get the word quality from?